For a lot of people, it took BorisWineGate before they were able to feel any compassion for those who suffered due to some of the OTT restrictions of 2020

[greenteafiend]

Because there are a number of people (on here and in other places) who are now finally happy to show sympathy for those who gave birth alone, died alone or were unable to say goodbye to loved ones or hug a suicidal friend, even though they spent most of 2020 supporting even the most insane measures, repeatedly calling for even harsher ones, and saying the most horrible things to people who tried to talk about how desperate they were feeling. And then spent most of 2021 demanding more and tougher restrictions too.

You know who you are. And you can sod off with Boris, frankly.

I see that ghastly Owen Jones (the eternal barometer of weasle-word turncoat politics) is now trying to pivot in this way on Twitter. I'm happy to say that he's being mocked soundly.

@PerkingFaintly

I credit the left generally with a lot of this madness

Ah yes. Whatever a rightwing government does, it's the left's fault.

After all, everything else is, isn't it? So I wondered when we were going to start hearing this about the management of Covid too.

Poor little disempowered Tory government with a stonking majority.

The point is that the opposition should have been questioning the govt, should have been asking for more evidence for more justification etc and held them to account.

But they didnt, Starmer was so on the fence with everything it was shocking. He wasnt brave enough to ask the hard questions and that is why they are as culpable as the tories are for the damage restrictions have done. They are as culpable for the govt being able to party at #10 as the tories are, because they chose to not shine a spotlight on them and hold them to account.

Ehhhh, no. The left are at fault for what the left did. And actually that's a lengthy enough list. They aren't at fault for a portion of the right refusing to comply with their own laws. That's on Boris and co only.

They are as culpable for the govt being able to party at #10 as the tories are, because they chose to not shine a spotlight on them and hold them to account.

Schrödinger's Labour?

It's All Labour's Fault Today Because:
they didn't criticise the restrictions enough for you
and simultaneously
didn't in your opinion criticise the No 10 crowd enough for breaking the restrictions?

(I think as well as twisting yourself in to a pretzel trying to come up with that, you must have been hiding under a rock. Labour didn't exactly hold back criticising Cummings' Specsavers jaunt.)

I've found this is one of those things you can't unsee:
Whatever a rightwing government does, it's the left's fault.

I agree OP but sadly still going on - you can see it on here now

*Threads of people still calling for restrictions - esp for schools. Ventilation, bubbles -for a virus people are triple/double jabbed from.
*Women who are pregnant declining jabs
*Threads of people asking stupid commn sense questions - "can I take my kids to school?" - use your bloody common sense fgs
"Is this a line?" - ffs are you that stupid you cant see a line when its right in front of you? Idiots almost wanting covid like a badge of honour!

Its literally like people lost their minds. Its a serious forms of OCD or anxiety. People still have no perception of risk at all, the data showing whos at risk really hasnt changed - people were just too bloody stupid to see it.
These people haven't changed.

The impact of these changes were obvious from 2020.

@PerkingFaintly

They are as culpable for the govt being able to party at #10 as the tories are, because they chose to not shine a spotlight on them and hold them to account.

Schrödinger's Labour?

It's All Labour's Fault Today Because:
they didn't criticise the restrictions enough for you
and simultaneously
didn't in your opinion criticise the No 10 crowd enough for breaking the restrictions?

(I think as well as twisting yourself in to a pretzel trying to come up with that, you must have been hiding under a rock. Labour didn't exactly hold back criticising Cummings' Specsavers jaunt.)

You misunderstand.

They should have had a big spotlight over #10 demanding more detail over why they think each restriction was required, to ensure it's for the best of the country (which it clearly wasnt imo) But they didnt, they're too scared to not be "woke".

I don't hold them responsible for shining a light on the parties, I think anyone who was willing to go along with restrictions and not stop and question them are culpable in letting the tories do whatever they wanted.

I'm glad they called out Cummings, they should have done. And they should have questioned every single thing the govt did, they're the opposition. It's their job.

Quite simply, there should have been no lockdowns. I remember crying as the announcement was made, not from fear of the virus, but from fear of control surrendered to the state. It should never have happened. I feel differently about my country...the stupidity and selfishness of allowing panic and control to spread quicker than the virus. People dying alone, depression, suicide, neglect and abuse of child...all deemed worth it by a huge number of people who were never ever in serious danger from covid. It was sheer cowardice. The government certainly weren't afraid. It's the same kind of thing with the breastfeeding mafia who constantly guilt people into doing something very very difficult at the cost of their relationship, health, sanity and ability to look after other children. We must all start to think more rationally about the costs and benefits of health advice and take responsibility for ourselves instead of surrendering all logic.

@rrhuth

I don't think it is hindsight, it is rewriting history.

Maybe the exact nature of the restrictions could have been better - but if we had not significantly cut contact between households in the original wave the admissions and deaths would have been enormous.

IMO people are cynically rewriting history now to suggest no restrictions were ever needed.

No one is saying the restrictions were not incredibly difficult. I think the limits on those who lived alone in particular were extremely tough. And care home residents. But then so many died anyway - would it have been better for more to die?

You are ignoring the clear points people are making and the examples they are giving. They are talking about the clearly stupid and inhumane rules which caused so much unnecessary angst and suffering.

People modified their behaviour anyway - we saw that in March 2020 and we saw it this Christmas just gone. They didn't need this black cloud of state sanctioned fear and threats having over them as well.

They should have had a big spotlight over #10 demanding more detail over why they think each restriction was required, to ensure it's for the best of the country (which it clearly wasnt imo) But they didnt, they're too scared to not be "woke

They should've, yes. And it's their fault they didn't. Parts of the right refusing to obey the rules they made is not.

@VikingOnTheFridge

They should have had a big spotlight over #10 demanding more detail over why they think each restriction was required, to ensure it's for the best of the country (which it clearly wasnt imo) But they didnt, they're too scared to not be "woke

They should've, yes. And it's their fault they didn't. Parts of the right refusing to obey the rules they made is not.

I never said it was

I think it’s fair to say the at westminister rules were the fault of the right since the right made them but we had four different parties in four different nations so we have a glimpse of what would have happened if someone else was in charge. And in reality those who are worried about the impact of lockdowns are not convinced that the mainstream left gets it because they only have to look that despite much lower covid rates than England Scot had a longer lockdown in 2020 made no attempt to return children to school before the summer break, shut nurseries in lockdown two (although England shows it was possible to bring down cases without locking up your youngest children) and didn’t let secondary school children back to school until April when in England they returned in March. Given the impact education has on socially mobility it seems odd that with a more left wing government Scotland children seem to have missed our on even more education than their English counterparts and it’s not that Westminster particularly prioritised schools - Remember they opened them after the pubs! It is strange I csn understand why some of the left feel politically homeless as I said education for all is usually something the left champions and it was abandoned by both sides

What did you mean by 'They are as culpable for the govt being able to party at #10 as the tories are' then?

[quote CarrieBlue]@nojudgementhere - we did not know that those restrictions weren’t essential. Of course the effect was awful, of course now we have a different perspective but at the time we had no idea. Hindsight is being very much relied on now.

I think we are now in great danger of allowing a future pandemic to escalate to even worse levels because we think we know best before we have any information.

I hope we never are hit by such an unprecedented situation again, sadly I think if we are it will be far far worse.[/quote]
The only problem with that is, who was vulnerable? There were lots of healthy non diabetic/asthmatic/elderly/obese people who died.

Given that even with “the harsh” restrictions we had we also had one of the highest death rates. I went to Germany in 2020 and their restrictions seemed harsher and they had a correspondingly lower death rate.

Saying that, some of the restrictions on births and dying were harsh and lacking common sense but the wider restrictions seemed fairly reasonable.

Is it not possible to feel compassion for those that suffered AND be supportive of strict lockdowns? I was a strong supporter of the lockdowns early on and I think they should have happened sooner. But I don't agree with the way people were made to labour alone or prevented seeing loved ones who were terminally ill. In many cases those rules weren't actually the result of the lockdown, they were decisions made by NHS managers in order to protect staff. To suggest that supporters of lockdown were also supporters of women labouring alone or elderly people dying alone is just wrong.

I think people tend to think that others think along the same lines they do. I think the OP's views are black and white, team lockdown v team freedom, and they won't accept that other people had more nuanced positions.

Back to Boris - what an absolute arsehole to have a "clear out" of No. 10 staff to eradicate the party culture amongst his staff. Do we really think there was a party culture while Theresa May lived there? Do we fuck. They're his staff, it's his culture. If they deserve sacking, so does he. Not only did he treat the country with absolute contempt, he is now throwing everyone around him to the wolves in a wild attempt to survive the consequences of his own actions.

We should be focusing on his shortcomings, not look to make ourselves feel better by attacking those in our own communities.

Do we really think there was a party culture while Theresa May lived there? Do we fuck

Lmao imagine.

Plenty of posters on MN were horrid, revelling in the strictest interpretation of the rules and being awful to others. Maybe they were genuinely scared but it felt more like people trying to enjoy (misplaced) moral superiority over others and bask in (misplaced) self righteousness. This attitude appears to now be redirected to the unvaccinated and is equally awful and ill considered. The government shamefully whips up fear, people can't be bothered to assess risk accurately and seem to enjoy being angry at the wrong people.
I try to be hopeful and think most people aren't really like this and that MN is a strange non-representative group.

Back to Boris - what an absolute arsehole to have a "clear out" of No. 10 staff to eradicate the party culture amongst his staff. Do we really think there was a party culture while Theresa May lived there? Do we fuck. They're his staff, it's his culture. If they deserve sacking, so does he. Not only did he treat the country with absolute contempt, he is now throwing everyone around him to the wolves in a wild attempt to survive the consequences of his own actions.

Johnson is an absolute fucking disgrace.

Substantial meals

Cordoning off playgrounds

Closing pubs at 10pm or whatever it was

Plastic screens (stopping air circulation) everywhere

Fucking arrows in shops

That funeral video

The drones following walkers in Derbyshire

There is an endless list of idiocy that people were frothing at the mouth to enforce. The level of compliance would turn milgram in his grave.

I don’t like what’s been going on at number 10 but part of me also feels like an idiot for not doing what they were doing, I always thought it utterly paranoid and most often cruel, and all for no real benefit. I always felt I was able to make my own risk assessment and didn’t need big daddy to tell me what I do, but I listened to big daddy under duress, and wish I’d trusted my instincts

I think the measures were proportionate early on though, when there was a lot we didn’t know about the virus.

Remember the threads about the ladies fined (later revoked) for walking around the lake together or Derbyshire police dying the lake blue and so many posters thinking this was a good thing. Total lack of perspective.
I had a ridiculous conversation defending people in a park to friends who have a garden as a big as a park. You know if you lived in a flat with no outdoor space, 3 kids and noisy neighbours yes you might go to the park.

I read a story of a woman taking her son to a testing site and….put him in the boot

I know of people who literally isolated their children in bedrooms for the 10 days, not letting them out

The only thing we need to fear is fear itself

@icedpuddles

Plenty of posters on MN were horrid, revelling in the strictest interpretation of the rules and being awful to others. Maybe they were genuinely scared but it felt more like people trying to enjoy (misplaced) moral superiority over others and bask in (misplaced) self righteousness. This attitude appears to now be redirected to the unvaccinated and is equally awful and ill considered. The government shamefully whips up fear, people can't be bothered to assess risk accurately and seem to enjoy being angry at the wrong people. I try to be hopeful and think most people aren't really like this and that MN is a strange non-representative group.

Absolutely this.

@icedpuddles

Remember the threads about the ladies fined (later revoked) for walking around the lake together or Derbyshire police dying the lake blue and so many posters thinking this was a good thing. Total lack of perspective. I had a ridiculous conversation defending people in a park to friends who have a garden as a big as a park. You know if you lived in a flat with no outdoor space, 3 kids and noisy neighbours yes you might go to the park.

I remember people on here trying to defend the police in the Derbyshire women walking case. It was laughable, especially when the police had to withdraw the fine and apologise.

Couldn't agree with you more OP.