Mask refusal in schools by pupils

[Twinklingstarface]

Seems it is the pupils rebelling now rather than the parents
apple.news/A41bZE79jR9mZVAzmNVy4uQ

@hamstersarse

If you think this decision was made on scientific research I really do despair. It was purely a political move. That was it.

You happen to agree with the outcome of that political move so are quite happy, I don't and think it is cynical and cowardly to 'pick on' children

I agree entirely. I am a teacher and I do not police the wearing of masks.

There's every reason to delay anyone catching covid now [in order to wait for] The new vaccine

I'm sympathetic to that, rainrainraincamedowndowndown. It's every parent's right to take reasonable steps to protect their children.

But really, the measures deployed don't do much to stop transmission. As Chessie678 suggests, they are at best a (slight) delaying measure.

If you want to protect your children, the paper posted by bringmelaughter reinforces what I think most already knew — that FFP2 masks are the gold standard. They genuinely do offer substantial protection, bringing infection risk to between 0.1% and 1% for wearers. The rub is that the new measures do not even achieve well-fitting of surgical masks, let alone FFP2.

No. Really, these measures are political, as hamstersarse and JangolinaPitt suggest. The are deployed on a population with groups with least agency, as VikingOnTheFridge notes, perhaps even deliberately creating the hazard of presumed protection that you have fallen for. The purpose of the intervention was almost certainly to ensure schools returned, and to cut avenues for teaching union criticism. Although the basic ambition is surely admirable, the means are shameful. In my opinion as a parent, of course.

@puppetear

There's every reason to delay anyone catching covid now [in order to wait for] The new vaccine

I'm sympathetic to that, rainrainraincamedowndowndown. It's every parent's right to take reasonable steps to protect their children.

But really, the measures deployed don't do much to stop transmission. As Chessie678 suggests, they are at best a (slight) delaying measure.

If you want to protect your children, the paper posted by bringmelaughter reinforces what I think most already knew — that FFP2 masks are the gold standard. They genuinely do offer substantial protection, bringing infection risk to between 0.1% and 1% for wearers. The rub is that the new measures do not even achieve well-fitting of surgical masks, let alone FFP2.

No. Really, these measures are political, as hamstersarse and JangolinaPitt suggest. The are deployed on a population with groups with least agency, as VikingOnTheFridge notes, perhaps even deliberately creating the hazard of presumed protection that you have fallen for. The purpose of the intervention was almost certainly to ensure schools returned, and to cut avenues for teaching union criticism. Although the basic ambition is surely admirable, the means are shameful. In my opinion as a parent, of course.

This is how I feel too and it’s well put, esp least agency and therefore easy to do.

There’s no point in delaying when you get covid unless possibly something significant will happen in the meantime like getting vaccinated.

@Chessie678 I completely understand your perspective (in your subsequent post too), but this part here is exact why I see the benefit in having a delay. Ds1 has now had both vaccinations, but ds2 is under 12 so has had none. If the JCVI would hurry up and clear vaccines for the under 12s, it would be helpful. (And to be really clear, I would like all parents to have a choice about that - if you wouldn’t like to have you child vaccinated that’s your choice. Both options should be available.)

If well fitting* masks can delay spread until vaccinations are more widely available, and until the pressure on hospitals has eased it’s a bonus in my view.

*surgical masks on teenagers are not that effective as they gape at the sides on smaller faces. I make sure ds has a mask that fits with a seal all the way around. I actually agree with the posts above that this is a badly thought out, badly implemented measure, and that’s mostly due to confused and inadequate government messaging re masks right from the start of the pandemic. There’s been very little information about the type of mask needed or how to wear them well or safely (none from the gvmt at all recently), literally just “children should wear a face covering in the classroom.” That’s useless messaging, meaning the government has asked students to do something that some find uncomfortable, but with such half arsed messaging and lack of information that the students don’t actually get the full benefit of it.

If the government had said “all students must wear ffp2s, you can pick up your free ones from schools or at pharmacies. Here’s how to wear them safely and effectively. Here’s why we need to wear them [insert informative diagram]” then it would have more chance of being effective, as seen in European and Asian countries.

Instead the government expects to put minimum effort in, and expect maximum effort from students, school, teachers and parents. The kids are making this effort they’ve been asked to do, but it’s been implemented so badly that’s it’s not going to protect them as much as it should. What a waste.

Tl;dr: where’s the government gone? Can we replace them with teenagers?

Instead the government expects to put minimum effort in, and expect maximum effort from students, school, teachers and parents

This is a good point. We seem to have the worst of all possible worlds here. A restriction that pisses off at least some kids and parents and that is much less effective than it could be.

Now I'm not sure how far any restrictions are going to be effective now, given the impact of the various party revelations on top of general fatigue. Even in parts of the population with least agency, there are bound to be more fuck offs than previously. But even in those difficult circumstances, if the government wants to go down the masks in secondaries route it could've been done better.

As regards teenagers being the group with least agency, I think it's pretty appalling that education has been such a low priority in terms of planning and support through covid.

Does anyone remember the catch-up funding row over which the "tsar" resigned?

Or the issue over children eligible for free school meals?

It has been 2 years, there could have been a plan in place for improved ventilation etc to keep schools open more effectively.

Masks are the least of it. (and they are a useful contribution right now).

Masks all day is not heathy for kids probably breathing in tiny particles of something from those masks!!!

My son hasn't stopped throat clearing since being in one all day!!

@Remmy123 Just to put your mind at ease about that, I used to live in Japan where wearing masks has been commonplace for generations now, and while most people don’t wear them all day all year round, people (including kids) would wear them in flu/hayfever season in school or at work. There are no health issues associated with wearing masks in terms of breathing in particles, overdosing on co2 (very disproven!) or fungal lung disease… it’s just not a concern as they’ve been wearing masks for generations and don’t see these problems. Obviously though you want to make sure your mask is clean!

Dh wears a surgical mask overnight when he feels a sore throat coming on and he swears it cures it overnight. No idea if that’s meant to happen or not, but he’s survived!

If he is throat clearing a lot, make sure he drinks a bit more throughout the day. He might be breathing through his mouth more while getting used to the mask, which would dry out his throat, so he could try concentrating on breathing through his nose more too.

And have you seen the technique for making a surgical mask for more like a n95? It gives you a bigger “pocket” of air to breathe so might feel easier for him. Hopefully the link works..

@herecomesthsun

As regards teenagers being the group with least agency, I think it's pretty appalling that education has been such a low priority in terms of planning and support through covid.

Does anyone remember the catch-up funding row over which the "tsar" resigned?

Or the issue over children eligible for free school meals?

It has been 2 years, there could have been a plan in place for improved ventilation etc to keep schools open more effectively.

Masks are the least of it. (and they are a useful contribution right now).

Yes, the Tories demonstrably don't give a shit about the welfare of teenagers generally. That goes to the point made upthread about it not being a shock that they choose a cheapo intervention, for which the real world evidence is patchy, and offload the responsibility for making it work onto teachers and students who are both struggling two years into this. Nothing to do with masks costing them much less than proper filtration etc, of course! Pure coincidence.