If workplaces are planning on a 25% absence rate then how on earth are we all expecting schools to carry on as normal ?

[Timetobuckup]

I have just been reading in the BBC website that the gov are telling businesses to plan for a quarter of their workforce to be absent .
There is no way schools / colleges will manage with that amount of staff out.

I work in a secondary school and had a pcr this morning , my teen ds is positive and I am keeping fingers and toes crossed I am negative but not holding out much hope.
We are doing mass testing on Tues and I am really interested to see how many have to go home.

Great if you're a natural- can I just ask why you aren't doing it for a living?

I didn’t say I’m a natural, I didn’t say I should be doing it for a living, I didn’t say I know how to do your job better than you do.

What I said was that if we really are in the situation where it’s a choice between being supervised by any adult or closing the school, reassign adults in jobs like mine to do that. Ultimately schools and children matter more than many other things we do.

Still I see we are quickly pivoting from “well I bet YOU wouldn’t go into a school!” arguments to “and what makes you think YOU could go into a school?” so, never mind.

@llansannan22

Perhaps OP we are not expecting all schools to carry on as normal. We all like you live in the real world.

Ofsted are. They are refusing to accept ‘Covid’ as a reason for anything.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Golden how would that work? What jobs wouldn't be done by the staff sent to do crowd control in schools?

The same jobs that weren’t done when we were reassigned from our normal work to do Covid crisis response earlier in the pandemic.

No it doesn’t mean society keeps ticking over. It would (again) be hugely disruptive. But if there is no way to avoid huge disruption, better to target resources to children and schools than try to do everything while schools fall over.

@blueshoes

I presume this 'staffing crisis' due to covid absences is somehow affecting the public sector more badly than the private sector.

Possibly.

But that maybe due to type of work. Everyone I know in private sector has wfh since the beginning. Therefore they get shopping delivered etc and aren't using public transport.

That doesn't work for me and my public sector friends who are all attending schools, health care places and social care places.

@blueshoes

I'd have more respect for you if you came out and said it openly.

Very happy to do so.

Staff absences are not an issue at 2 separate independent schools which my dcs go to and never were. Funny that.

Maybe they've been lucky to avoid it?

There has been issues with covid at all the local indies to me. All 3 as I know people who have kids in all 3.

The only difference is they have less of a skeleton staff to start with as privately and not government funded.

I’m not sure how anyone could insinuate that Covid-related staffing problems are a result of slacker public sector teachers. What do you imagine they’re doing, faking PCR results? Deliberately getting covid so they don’t have to teach? Come on…

@LadyPenelope68 it's bonkers. We all knew it was bonkers, but I'm sure someone somewhere is making a mint from those CO2 things.
I'm now resigned to getting ill and that school will be chaos this term. I'll do my best but I feel a bit broken before we even start. It's been nearly 2 years and this pathetic shower in charge have learned nothing.
But OFSTED may still turn up and tell me I'm not doing a good enough job. I'm severely tempted to tell them to F off. Hopefully that will make the final report.

I'm sure redeployed public sector staff could be useful in schools as assistants to the teacher, fulfilling admin jobs so more time to take classes. The problem isn't helping, it's being placed in charge of a class with no prior experience of this. The problem is if there is no teacher there to assist.

I have a new probability meter which predicts how screwed and inaccessible schools I’ll become.

Most of the threads are about education. There is panicked posting from people as the realise the “bury their head in the sand” approach won’t keep schools open for education.

@Mistressiggi

I admire the balls of those willing to volunteer to take a secondary class with no training. Not sure many would come back in for day 2.

🤣🤣🤣

My BIL has a Very important job within his company - gazillion £ budget, 1000s of employees.
As part of some sort of outreach/ recruitment drive he went into a local secondary school to do a finance workshop with students.

He was so shocked the poor man!

‘They didn’t listen Nina! (I am a teacher)
They were chatting during my presentation - shouting out. Some of them didn’t even attempt the task and just got up to talk to their friends! One of them started eating a bag of crisps’.

I have never laughed so hard at my darling naive multi millionaire BIL who thinks my ‘little’ teaching job is the easiest job in the world!

Thought, not thinks!
He admitted he’d had his eyes opened!

@Itisasecret if only they'd listened when we told them this would happen if nothing was done last term. It's weird that people who work in schools know what goes on in them. Obviously not as well as Us4Them who are education experts.
I'm in school today trying to figure out how to open tomorrow. So far I've collapsed every class I can and have over 100 in the gym, from 3 different year groups. No idea how many kids we will have so might ease up once we know at 8.30 in morning. But all staff testing today so might get worse. Who knows ???

@GoldenOmber I think it would be far better for you and all the other people who can, to wfh / get reduced hours/ furlough and look after your own children at home ( better for the children too). If your employers expect you to be working they won't be freeing you up to go into school, but the reduced ratios would allow a skeleton school staff to cover ratios in childcare hubs as before.
I think we need to be really careful here that we don't play down the importance of our own professions. There's no way I could go into a hospital and be any use at all - I could make cups of tea for the nurses perhaps? And maybe wipe a fevered brow with a flannel. Other than that I might just get in the way...
I'm sure whatever people are working at is really necessary or your employer wouldn't need you in. If they don't need you in, then supporting your own DC at homeschooling is probably the biggest help- if we get anywhere near being this organised

Golden: What I said was that if we really are in the situation where it’s a choice between being supervised by any adult or closing the school, reassign adults in jobs like mine to do that. Ultimately schools and children matter more than many other things we do.

Be careful what you wish for! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I think it would be far better for you and all the other people who can, to wfh / get reduced hours/ furlough and look after your own children at home

That would be lovely! But it won’t happen, and not least because public sector are not eligible for furlough.

If your employers expect you to be working they won't be freeing you up to go into school

Our employers’ priorities are set by the government, who can say “this stops, THIS is the priority, this matters more than anything, send staff here”, like they did last spring.

No obviously we’re (mostly) not qualified teachers or TAs. But if having available disclosure-checked adults is the difference between schools being able to stay open and not - and schools with enough staff absence won’t be able to stay open for anyone, nurses’ children, vulnerable children, anyone - rather than watch schools close.

There isn’t an option to magic up qualified teachers from nowhere in time for next week, and there isn’t an option to keep kids out of school and have society keep running fine anyway. So let’s acknowledge that and then do what we can within those constraints?

GoldenOmber

All very noble - Let us know how you get on!

@GoldenOmber no one is eligible for furlough at the moment. So it's a bit of a moot point.
Earlier you said you couldn't look after your children at home as your employer needs you to work and you wouldn't be able to manage.
Coming in to school to babysit classes wouldn't solve that problem either.
Have you thought about what you'll actually be doing with those children? Or what you'll do when they decide to throw shoes at each other?

llansannan22
Perhaps OP we are not expecting all schools to carry on as normal. We all like you live in the real world.*
Ofsted are. They are refusing to accept ‘Covid’ as a reason for anything.*

Ofsted stresses me out more than Covid at the moment.
Last half term i had combined classes / worked a lunchtime duty at short notice / had to prep work for absent colleagues / missed PPA due to lack of cover. It meant school stayed open which is what I wanted. However, it meant I had less time to plan, prepare and mark. I can't plan for the needs of every individual child when I suddenly have 6 extra from another class sprung on me with 30 mins notice. I may not have prepped quite enough resources, but we'll get through. I might be a bit behind on my marking. I might even have to change my timetable last minute as I no longer have an extra body in the room or haven't had time to get the equipment ready at lunchtime as I was supervising lunch.
All of these things I can, and have, manage. I'm a realist - it is not perfect education, but far better than the alternative of sending children home.
However, from talking to colleagues who have recently been through Ofsted, Ofsted are not interested in problems to do with Covid. They expect to see us running perfectly, and if you are not, it is your fault.

Perhaps Ofsted should look at how well prepared the dfe are before casting judgement on how well schools are coping. And let's not forget, Ofsted are the first to run out of schools when cases are sky-high.

@hunder that. A million times that. OFSTED expect us to be at our best. And we are not. We are trying our best, but it's by no means our best. But the stick will be applied anyway and we will be deemed a bit shit. I actually hate them so much for this extra layer of stress for staff. If they turn up we might all go off sick and they can run the school.

The same jobs that weren’t done when we were reassigned from our normal work to do Covid crisis response earlier in the pandemic.
Yes Golden but which jobs were they? And what were they reassigned to?

@GoldenOmber no one is eligible for furlough at the moment. So it's a bit of a moot point.

But public sector workers are never eligible for furlough even when it is running. It’s part of the furlough scheme. We don’t qualify.

Earlier you said you couldn't look after your children at home as your employer needs you to work and you wouldn't be able to manage.

Yes, they do. If me and my colleagues can’t do our normal jobs, the result would be quite disruptive - there isn’t a way where we all stop working and the country keeps ticking over as normal.

What my employers can do, though, is reassign us to even-higher-priority areas, which they will do if government says it’s what should happen. Again; this has happened before, this is what happened last spring.

Have you thought about what you'll actually be doing with those children?

Whatever we’re told to do, the same as the last time we all got reassigned to deal with an emergency.

Again, and this must be the fourth time I have said this: obviously we are not teachers or TAs, obviously we we would not be able to do the jobs of qualified professionals. But if we are at the point when it’s 60 kids in the hall being supervised by one dinner lady, then send in some extra adults before closing the whole school down.

Yes Golden but which jobs were they? And what were they reassigned to?

Let me guess... office/ phone based jobs.
Sorting out food parcels, advice lines?

@hunder I think the one think Omicron might be good for is keeping OFSTED at bay for a wee while.

I know other sectors are suffering but I work in a secondary school so that was the sector I was thinking about when I started this thread.

My biggest surprise at the moment is how most of the people I know with children are just expecting their children to be in school tomorrow and haven't got a back up plan. The amount of people I know who have tested positive in the last couple of weeks is shocking.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

The same jobs that weren’t done when we were reassigned from our normal work to do Covid crisis response earlier in the pandemic. Yes Golden but which jobs were they? And what were they reassigned to?

A lot of different jobs, reassigned to a lot of different jobs, at national and local government levels and wider public sector all over the country. You know this happened, yes? This isn’t the point that’s being disputed? Are you trying to ask if people were reassigned to jobs similar to what they were doing already?

@hunder

llansannan22 Perhaps OP we are not expecting all schools to carry on as normal. We all like you live in the real world.* Ofsted are. They are refusing to accept ‘Covid’ as a reason for anything.*

Ofsted stresses me out more than Covid at the moment.
Last half term i had combined classes / worked a lunchtime duty at short notice / had to prep work for absent colleagues / missed PPA due to lack of cover. It meant school stayed open which is what I wanted. However, it meant I had less time to plan, prepare and mark. I can't plan for the needs of every individual child when I suddenly have 6 extra from another class sprung on me with 30 mins notice. I may not have prepped quite enough resources, but we'll get through. I might be a bit behind on my marking. I might even have to change my timetable last minute as I no longer have an extra body in the room or haven't had time to get the equipment ready at lunchtime as I was supervising lunch.
All of these things I can, and have, manage. I'm a realist - it is not perfect education, but far better than the alternative of sending children home.
However, from talking to colleagues who have recently been through Ofsted, Ofsted are not interested in problems to do with Covid. They expect to see us running perfectly, and if you are not, it is your fault.

Perhaps Ofsted should look at how well prepared the dfe are before casting judgement on how well schools are coping. And let's not forget, Ofsted are the first to run out of schools when cases are sky-high.

This a million times over. Ofsted expecting normality is what is scaring and worrying me.