If workplaces are planning on a 25% absence rate then how on earth are we all expecting schools to carry on as normal ?

[Timetobuckup]

I have just been reading in the BBC website that the gov are telling businesses to plan for a quarter of their workforce to be absent .
There is no way schools / colleges will manage with that amount of staff out.

I work in a secondary school and had a pcr this morning , my teen ds is positive and I am keeping fingers and toes crossed I am negative but not holding out much hope.
We are doing mass testing on Tues and I am really interested to see how many have to go home.

My concern is the assumption that 25% of the workforce will be isolating for 7 days, but all feeling perfectly well and able to carry on WFH and return on day 8. The problem is going to be how to manage potential longer term absense/sickness/disability on such a massive scale.

Equally if a child is assigned a 1-1 TA and that child us off, what happens to their TA?

@Isolated101

I’m just struggling to understand why every other sector is supposed to just carry on, in not ideal situations, other staff in other sectors are expected to work longer hours, cover different roles, do what they can to get through, but when it comes to schools any suggestion that’s less than perfect is seen as impossible? This is only an attitude I see on here btw and definitely not in RL.

Teachers did do online lessons from home, and have continued to do so when needed, both at my children’s school, the school my parents teach in and the school my sisters children attend. People upgraded their internet package, brought WiFi extenders, or found other ways around it in many other professions. This would be for 7-10 days while a member of staff is isolating IF necessary, so none of these are long term.

This again shows, you don’t know what you’re taking about.

Teachers are getting long Covid/really sick. I imagine for to exposure (especially primary). Unvaccinated cohort, close contact, no masks. Last term 2 year groups shut as supply for the supply for sick. Don’t actually know how it will work this week.

Oh and the reason it’s not so easy to adapt, there are things called safeguarding, ratios, etc. Even if you could get enough staff to make several classes in the hall legal (we had to last term). It’s not education.

Suppose I offer to work longer hours if colleagues are off - will you send your dc in for the second shift, say between 4 and 8pm?

[quote LadyPenelope68]@Waxonwaxoff0
A lot of teachers and TAs WERE essentially babysitters for KW children in the first lockdown. Of course that's not what teachers are there for, they are there to educate, but that's the reality of what happened.
I’m a teacher, I’m fully aware of what a shit show the whole thing was the first time around.[/quote]
OK. I don't get your whole "parents job to educate" attitude then. Why do we need teachers at all if that's your opinion? I send my child to school because I can't deliver a standard of education that his teachers can. As a parent it's my job to teach my child good values, manners, how to dress himself, how to cook, how to become independent. I can't teach him maths and science because I'm shit at that. And I know I am.

@Isolated101

I’m just struggling to understand why every other sector is supposed to just carry on, in not ideal situations, other staff in other sectors are expected to work longer hours, cover different roles, do what they can to get through, but when it comes to schools any suggestion that’s less than perfect is seen as impossible? This is only an attitude I see on here btw and definitely not in RL.

Teachers did do online lessons from home, and have continued to do so when needed, both at my children’s school, the school my parents teach in and the school my sisters children attend. People upgraded their internet package, brought WiFi extenders, or found other ways around it in many other professions. This would be for 7-10 days while a member of staff is isolating IF necessary, so none of these are long term.

Says someone who clearly hasn't read any threads and has no understanding of how schools work.

@gogohm

You can only catch omicron once, it will run out of hosts at this speed, already slowing in South Africa. Stop panicking. In my work there is only me , if I go sick nobody covers - upside is I have my own office, I won't be doing pcrs

Do we have any data to say the omicron can’t reinfect?

Currently in the U.K. approx 15mil people have had covid. We have a population of 66 mil. It has miles of distance to travel.

@Isolated101

Equally if a child is assigned a 1-1 TA and that child us off, what happens to their TA?

Ours would be redeployed to support someone else. We're 3 TAs down so there are a number of students who need support but rarely get it.

I think one of the particular issues with schools is that you need an adult supervising the children.

DH is an accountant. When lockdown introduced they all WFH. Not possible in schools. If someone is sick, they either try to reschedule their work, or it is shared across colleagues. Someone doesn’t have to physically sit at their desk, but someone has to physically be in a classroom. And it isn’t simply a case of sitting there for a day while a class of Y9s diligently teach themselves GCSE maths, without any disruptive behaviour at all.

Then you have to factor in any children that require 1:1s, intimate care, medical help eg KS1 pupils needing help managing their diabetes. You need to ensure you have qualified first aider on site. Safeguarding lead on site. For younger children there are ratios to be maintained

@isolated101

Are you really expecting every other sector to carry on with no issues?
Driver shortages in food distribution will result in shortages in shops. Those not ill ot isolating will continue but there are limits to how much the can deliver as they cant not drive 24/7 saftey rules and all that.
Supermarkets will have issues with refilling stock and maning checkouts.
Fuel distribution could result in fuel shortages (possibly ok if more people are not travelling around)
Police shortages could result in an uptick of crime
Refuge shortages could result in rubbish not being collected ad planned which could in some areas increase vermin
Fire shortages could result in some engines taken off duta which means that their is an incresed risk of should they be needed they will have to priotise calls and could take longer to get to you (this has already been an issue this pandemic and is likely to be far worse soon).
Medical services. We already have problems with the increse need of ambalances resulting in people not getting an ambalance on time or waiting far too long. Even when ambalance arrives they have to then wait for more hrs outside the hospital as they are too busy. A further reduction is staff in medical services is going to be horendous. And as already estabilished a cleaner can not become a nurse overnight.

@Isolated101

I’m just struggling to understand why every other sector is supposed to just carry on, in not ideal situations, other staff in other sectors are expected to work longer hours, cover different roles, do what they can to get through, but when it comes to schools any suggestion that’s less than perfect is seen as impossible? This is only an attitude I see on here btw and definitely not in RL.

Teachers did do online lessons from home, and have continued to do so when needed, both at my children’s school, the school my parents teach in and the school my sisters children attend. People upgraded their internet package, brought WiFi extenders, or found other ways around it in many other professions. This would be for 7-10 days while a member of staff is isolating IF necessary, so none of these are long term.

Someone still needs to supervise the children in class, which is the issue.

@Covidworries of course not, everyone is going to struggle, and it’s not ideal. This thread was started about how schools are expected to cope, so that is why people are making suggestions for how schools could cope.

I actually think education has a much bigger problem than getting through the next few weeks/months of low staff levels, due to chronic underfunding and cuts for years. However, I also don’t think schools can shut as it is too damaging for the vulnerable children. Even if it IS only babysitting and not educating, at least they are being seen. Hence why people on here are trying to suggest ways schools can ‘get through’ the shortage of staff.

Covidworries

Good post. However why can’t we just ask for volunteers to drive the ambulances, or nurse the sick, I mean surely there’s some remotely qualified wanna be police officers who could just step into the role as hoc?
Same with teachers, a few volunteers looking after 60 kids in a cold hall should be simple right?

Only teachers are seen as basic baby sitters rather than qualified professionals, that any old person could take over.

[quote Isolated101]@Covidworries of course not, everyone is going to struggle, and it’s not ideal. This thread was started about how schools are expected to cope, so that is why people are making suggestions for how schools could cope.

I actually think education has a much bigger problem than getting through the next few weeks/months of low staff levels, due to chronic underfunding and cuts for years. However, I also don’t think schools can shut as it is too damaging for the vulnerable children. Even if it IS only babysitting and not educating, at least they are being seen. Hence why people on here are trying to suggest ways schools can ‘get through’ the shortage of staff.[/quote]
So suggest ways to help. Don't have a cheap pop at school staff.

@isolated101

And i was responding to your post which said every ither sector has to carry on..

A school can not stay open with no staff. People left alone with children need DBS so we can no just pull randoms from the street. Reducing numbers if needed to ensure childcare is supplied for essential key worker parents and vunerable children may be needed if schools can not safely staff the whole school that is living with the situation. Wait to long to do this and the risk is the school cant even staff a school for anyone.

@containsnuts

My concern is the assumption that 25% of the workforce will be isolating for 7 days, but all feeling perfectly well and able to carry on WFH and return on day 8. The problem is going to be how to manage potential longer term absense/sickness/disability on such a massive scale.

This.

Last year, albeit pre vaccines, most of our staff caught covid and almost every one of them was symptomatic. Some required longer than 10 days off work due to symptoms - others went back when isolation was up despite not being fully better, A number had ongoing issues with fatigue, breathlessness, etc. Most of our staff are female, many in mid 30s-mid 50s age bracket, a group known to be more likely to experience long covid symptoms. I'm not sure if that is why, or if it was down to viral load - 30 children in small rooms for length periods of time with no social distancing, etc.

I was off for 7 weeks and returned before I was fully better. I have I going issues over a year later.

I did wfh during some of that time but couldn't have taught remotely for full days, especially in the first few weeks. Fortunately my role means I could do other work at home instead as I tried to recover.

@sherrystrull In my first post I said that last term we’d had partial closures and learning from home, so I would expect this would be the way forward, this then got pulled apart by people saying how, that won’t work, we can’t wfh etc etc

Coming from a family of teachers I would never take a cheap pop as I know what an amazing job they do. It’s just on here, sometimes it comes across very negatively when people are trying to offer suggestions.

Re the vaccines : on the one hand, some posters tell us all will be fine because adults are vaccinated (will stop them getting too ill/will mitigate against spread) - on the other we are told it doesn't stop them catching it so that won't achieve much, if anything at all- said upthread in good faith, and then there's the mental gymnastics about unvaccinated children and being told if many of them are vaccinated this will help. Either the vaccines help or they don't. Either vaccinating kids would make a difference, or it won't. Masks , ditto.

But if not vaccines and masks, what then?

"However, I also don’t think schools can shut as it is too damaging for the vulnerable children. Even if it IS only babysitting and not educating, at least they are being seen. Hence why people on here are trying to suggest ways schools can ‘get through’ the shortage of staff."

Vulnerable children will slip through the net in this scenario also. Problems are picked-up by staff who know the child and family, have a relationship with them and can spot changes or anxieties. That will be harder in such a chaotic environment with random groupings of children and different members of staff who are less familiar with the kids.

Hence why people on here are trying to suggest ways schools can ‘get through’ the shortage of staff

People with no clue about what is minimally required to keep a class open. Or are we now saying all those legally enforceable staff:child ratios, safeguarding, availability of hot food, availability of first aiders, redeployment of TAs away from supporting individual children with care plans, SEN and disabilities is fine? Someone above used the example of children in KS1 needing support with type 1 diabetes, for example. If the care plan isn’t followed by someone trained to do so, said child ends up in hospital or worse. Or are you going to say that children with disabilities need to stay home for the greater good?

There is huge naivety on this thread regarding what schools are up,against. The assumption that all staff will only be off, at the same time, for 7days is the biggest issue.

@containsnuts by being in school children are at least getting a break from home and fed. For some the only meal they get each day is what they are fed at school. It also means someone has a record of their attendance, if they don’t show up this is recorded and followed up by an EWO. With staff shortages obviously it won’t be as it would be in normal times, but in my opinion some provision is better than none.

Hence why people on here are trying to suggest ways schools can ‘get through’ the shortage of staff

So people who have no clue how to manage a school think they know better?

I’ve never worked in a post office, and I don’t intend to tell them how to do their jobs, but schools seem to gain opinions by every Tom Dick and Harry because they have once attended schools or visited one or have a perfect child attending.

@Isolated101

This is what you said...

I’m just struggling to understand why every other sector is supposed to just carry on, in not ideal situations, other staff in other sectors are expected to work longer hours, cover different roles, do what they can to get through, but when it comes to schools any suggestion that’s less than perfect is seen as impossible?

Schools are carrying on and working longer hours as standard, let alone at the moment. Can you not see how your wording is inflammatory?

Sowhatifiam

People with no clue about what is minimally required to keep a class open. Or are we now saying all those legally enforceable staff:child ratios, safeguarding, availability of hot food, availability of first aiders, redeployment of TAs away from supporting individual children with care plans, SEN and disabilities is fine? Someone above used the example of children in KS1 needing support with type 1 diabetes, for example. If the care plan isn’t followed by someone trained to do so, said child ends up in hospital or worse. Or are you going to say that children with disabilities need to stay home for the greater good?

There is huge naivety on this thread regarding what schools are up,against. The assumption that all staff will only be off, at the same time, for 7days is the biggest issue.

Yes to all of the above.

@Isolated101 how would you deal with KS1 child with diabetes scenario if you have staff shortages? And that was the only issue you had to consider, which obviously in reality wouldn’t be the only issue schools would be facing