My friend is stuck in hospital because there are not enough staff to process his discharge

[Jacaranda75]

My friend has been in a London hospital for a couple of weeks now (not Covid). He has been well enough to go home for a few days, but the hospital are struggling as so many staff are off with Covid or isolating after becoming close contacts. They just don’t have enough medical staff on duty to cope with even basic procedures such as my friend’s discharge. So he’s stuck there. He’s fine, that’s not really the point.

Things are really bad at the moment. Especially in London. The NHS is on its knees. People saying it’s ‘just a mild illness’ need to think about the impact that it is having.

@MollyQueenOfSocks

Unfortunately the NHS has already collapsed. We just can't admit it to ourselves yet

Between this thread, the ambulance thread where OP's Dad was having a heart attack and had to be taken by car and my own experiences as both a patient and employee over the pandemic, I can see that health services in this country are completely done in. and yes, it IS all the Tories fault - even pre pandemic we were on the verge and Covid was the excuse Boris needed to stamp it right down into dust.

Grew up in an NHS working family and have proudly worked there myself for 12 years. It makes me incredibly sad to see it's slow demise and it wasn't until this year I could admit to myself it is beyond the point of repair.

I agree it has now collapsed. The Tories finally got their way.

London has the worst vaccination statistics in the UK. It's the COVID hotspot. Persuade young and ethnic Londoners to get vaccinated, and watch cases fall. Not a lot of sympathy here, from the SW, which has vaccinated, and boosted, nearly or more than 90% of the population. And which, not coincidentally, is seeing cases decline. Refuse the vaccine and suffer the consequences............ but please shut up about it.

@scaevola

This is the crisis in social care in action.

The hosoital would discharge in about 20mins, but cannot do so because there is no care plan

If you block the discharge of a system, you prevent new admissions , irrespective of the capacity between admission and discharge.

Yep. And it was obvious the vaccine requirement for care staff was going to lead to more bed blocking.

@EatSleepRantRepeat

It's not just immigrants *@rrhuth* though is it? It's overpopulation in general including the native UK population popping out too many kids.

Its a numbers game - our population is growing massively and our facilities aren't able to keep up. All the babies born after the big wave of inward immigration in 2000s under a Labour govt (and are therefore as British as me) will also need their own housing, healthcare and jobs in the next ten years and will start having children of their own.

It's not about entitlement, everyone who lives and pays taxes here is entitled, it's about forward planning and being able to train and supply enough doctors in time to cope with the boom. Both Labour and Conservative governments have fucked it up.

Actually birth rate in England and Wales is 1.6 per woman. That's too low, 2.1 is needed to keep population level steady. The rising population is mostly due to people living longer, and partly due to immigration.

We actually need more children to be born. You won't have a functioning society with a large number of elderly people and a much smaller number of working age adults and children.

Tbh Op you said there werent enough staff to process his discharge and that he was fine.

Which is completely different to someone who cant leave hospital because they need a care package in place to have a safe discharge.
This is absolutely nothing new !

[quote Jacaranda75]@LostForWords2021 You knew exactly what I meant. Stop trying to cause problems.[/quote]
No harm meant at all.

My only point being, you can't write on an open forum saying people can't leave the hospital environment - they can.

They can when well enough

We do need children, who are loved and educated, and cared for to grow up to care for their parents. We don't need a baby boom, because this is quite a small island, and it's already full.

@LostForWords2021 - you’re spouting rubbish. One can be well enough not to need the sort of care a hospital provides, but not fit or well enough just to get dressed and mosey on out. Hospital is not the appropriate place for every type of care need.

@StEval

Tbh Op you said there werent enough staff to process his discharge and that he was fine.

Which is completely different to someone who cant leave hospital because they need a care package in place to have a safe discharge.
This is absolutely nothing new !

This is absolutely correct. It's nothing new, a well recognised issue.

It's called a Delayed Transfer of Care (DToC) and used to be reported on monthly by all hospitals. This was paused because of the pandemic last year.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/delayed-transfers-of-care/

@XingMing

London has the worst vaccination statistics in the UK. It's the COVID hotspot. Persuade young and ethnic Londoners to get vaccinated, and watch cases fall. Not a lot of sympathy here, from the SW, which has vaccinated, and boosted, nearly or more than 90% of the population. And which, not coincidentally, is seeing cases decline. Refuse the vaccine and suffer the consequences............ but please shut up about it.

All of my current covid inpatients are triple vaccinated (we vaccinated them on the dialysis unit, we had 95% uptake). Some are triple vaccinated, and had delta about a year ago (pre-vaccine). They still caught it. None have symptoms, luckily. My colleagues are triple vaccinated, and still caught it. Again, all pretty well, unlike with delta.

Omicron infects vaccinated people. It just hasn’t really hit the SW yet.

@Walkaround. Exactly! Thank you.

@LostForWords2021 Well aren't you a peach? Are you always this difficult?

People saying it’s ‘just a mild illness’ need to think about the impact that it is having.

You said yourself the problem is because they are short staffed, that's because so many staff are isolating, not because they have died.
My whole household has covid at the moment and we've hardly seen anyone over the holidays. 7 people 2 days apart. So hardly out partying it up catching covid for fun.

Sadly an all too common problem in my trust, patient 'medically fit for discharge' but onward care just not available.

Self discharging is never to be recommended. It looks bad. It's pitiful that they don't have the staff to discharge him properly.

This is not a new thing. I self discharged years ago after waiting nearly a full day. Yes we all know the NHS is currently very broken. Not sure what the answer is but endless restrictions is not it.

Wind it in @LostForWords2021. You’re being deliberately obtuse and we all know it.

There haven't been enough staff in London hospitals for years; nothing to do with COVID. It's underfunding / mismanagement of funds and a lack of effective recruiting.

It's interesting and I am sure there are prevailing pressures but in 1992ish dh had to have his appendix removed. At 10am the following morning he wanted to come home. The nurse said he couldn't because he needed to wait for painkillers. I asked when they would be ready and evidently the pharmacy collection was at 1pm. He had just been give some painkillers and didn't yet need them so put them in his pocket.

I went to the nurses station and said as he wanted to go home, I would come back at 1.30 for the medication. You would think they'd have been pleased as it freed a bed. Oh no, they agreed with the NHS eyeball and on my way back from the loo I heard them letting rip because the bloody wife was taking him home which meant they had to prep the bed and receive another patient from A&E. The latent idleness was disgusting.

@Delatron

This is not a new thing. I self discharged years ago after waiting nearly a full day. Yes we all know the NHS is currently very broken. Not sure what the answer is but endless restrictions is not it.

That's all well and good.

But OPs friend is actually waiting for a care package. Presumably you didn't require a care package from social care to be in place to allow you go home safely?

It's not just immigrants @rrhuth though is it? It's overpopulation in general including the native UK population popping out too many kids

The thing is the UK population has grown over the last 50 yrs at a fairly steady pace, it has gone up from just shy of 56 million in 1971 to just under 68 and a half million in 2021. That 12 and a half million people didn't arrive suddenly on boats or as a suprise. It has been happening for 50 years and for 50 years, Governments have been doing their best to ignore the fact that all those people will need a variety of services. Don't get angry with the people who are here, get angry with those who are responsible for providing services to them, which is ultimately whoever is in power today.

DToC is the polite term for bed blockers

@Wrongkindofovercoat

It's not just immigrants @rrhuth though is it? It's overpopulation in general including the native UK population popping out too many kids

The thing is the UK population has grown over the last 50 yrs at a fairly steady pace, it has gone up from just shy of 56 million in 1971 to just under 68 and a half million in 2021. That 12 and a half million people didn't arrive suddenly on boats or as a suprise. It has been happening for 50 years and for 50 years, Governments have been doing their best to ignore the fact that all those people will need a variety of services. Don't get angry with the people who are here, get angry with those who are responsible for providing services to them, which is ultimately whoever is in power today.

Some of this is caused by people living longer now than fifty years ago too.

Although the government is trying to address this by reducing life expectancy...

My elderly mother is in the same position. She has terminal cancer and we need carers in place at home before She is discharged. She is stable and should be in her own home. We have been told its because there is a lack of staff because of covid.
We are living the crisis in the NHS. Covid and years of underfunding.

@scaevola

DToC is the polite term for bed blockers

It puts the blame on the process (delayed transfer of care), and not on the patient (bed blocker). So better (and more accurate), IME. But yes it is the same situation being described.