Going back to school .

[Sallydimebar]

Feeling really uneasy on DS 12 returning to school , Just feel this omicron is going to rip through and although I’m told it’s mild 2 people currently with covid are vomiting, stomach pain and feeling dreadful , barely moving out of bed. I’m thinking it’s probably omicron they’ve got .
I feel with out the vaccine I’m sending him in with no protection. Not feeling 100% on the jab but don’t want the risk of long covid and he really seems to suffer quite badly with illness . He had it in October was quite poorly with it , can’t get jab till end of jan . Was poorly 2 weeks ago with headache and temp for four days then cough lft negative . Just don’t want another 8/10 days of omicron . It’s being described as highly contagious so very likely to be in school again in jan .

Are parents going to lft kids twice a week (if test-kit available as I can’t get hold of any at moment) ? Not heard about masks yet , but they were only needed in corridors not in class .

Was hoping if you had delta maybe that would protect you for a bit, if he had antibodies but I’ve read delta gives you no protection from omicron.

Really don’t want schools shut again and so vital for his mental health to be with his peers as well as education.

@cantkeepawayforever

I am not asking for schools to close.

Pretty much all other close-contact face to face workplaces have guidance about mask wearing, distancing / restricted occupancy, ventilation, screens etc - while interacting principally with vaccinated members of the public.

I'd like to feel that at least as much effort, thought and investment is being put into making schools as safe as they can be as has been put into other workplaces, especially as primary schools in particular involve prolonged close contact with an unvaccinated population.

I wish. It really isn't like that for many (nor are we all working from home) I have always primarily been concerned about those I am interacting with, rather than me.

"I don't see teachers here moaning about any aspect of teaching."

Of course not. But some posters don't like to let facts like that get in the way of their goading.

@cantkeepawayforever

I am not asking for schools to close.

Pretty much all other close-contact face to face workplaces have guidance about mask wearing, distancing / restricted occupancy, ventilation, screens etc - while interacting principally with vaccinated members of the public.

I'd like to feel that at least as much effort, thought and investment is being put into making schools as safe as they can be as has been put into other workplaces, especially as primary schools in particular involve prolonged close contact with an unvaccinated population.

An unvaccinated population? You mean children? They deserve a normal childhood and school is as essential as hospitals

For what it's worth I am all for teachers to go clubbing, attend large gatherings or small family get togethers, whatever makes them happy and fulfilled. If they catch Covid when out socialising or in the classroom, they'll soon enough get back and any time a teacher is off can be spent with a very short stint of remote learning. It really needn't be hysterical. All secondary school kids and possibly year 6 children should wear masks everywhere in school at all times apart from lunch and outside. Omicron is a cold, please can people stop being so hysterical about a virus that for most shows no symptoms or only very mild ones. Having had 3-4 vaccines and with millions of us having had it, it's time to go back to business as usual with a few basic mitigations such as mask wearing thrown in. I also think they should reduce isolation to 5 days. Moaning about schools being open for kids to come and learn as is their right is just selfish.

@SaussageRollPuzzle

For what it's worth I am all for teachers to go clubbing, attend large gatherings or small family get togethers, whatever makes them happy and fulfilled. If they catch Covid when out socialising or in the classroom, they'll soon enough get back and any time a teacher is off can be spent with a very short stint of remote learning. It really needn't be hysterical. All secondary school kids and possibly year 6 children should wear masks everywhere in school at all times apart from lunch and outside. Omicron is a cold, please can people stop being so hysterical about a virus that for most shows no symptoms or only very mild ones. Having had 3-4 vaccines and with millions of us having had it, it's time to go back to business as usual with a few basic mitigations such as mask wearing thrown in. I also think they should reduce isolation to 5 days. Moaning about schools being open for kids to come and learn as is their right is just selfish.

You are the only person being hysterical that I can see.

I'll ask again, WHO is "moaning" and "hysterical?"

And are you saying that it is untrue to say that children are unvaccinated?

Not saying it's fair that people working from home can be less cautious or that people working out of the home shouldn't be allowed to socialise. Everyone is free to do as they please. I just think the reality is that it will be a consideration for most people. I am not going anywhere crowded between now and the start of term because I need to be at work on the 4th. I assume most people will follow the same thought process - ie, what is my job, when do I need to be at it and how difficult will it be if i can't? Just common sense, surely?

What really will annoy me is if restrictions are put on what we can do in schools while nightclubs are still open - ie if I'm told I can't run proper rehearsals or that the children can't sing without distancing or masks but adults can crowd together on a club. If adults get to continue as normal then so should schools.

@Whitefire

The majority of teaching staff will be double vaccinated and boosted by the time term starts, just like the majority of the working population. This is as good as it is going to get at the moment.

Yes, but mine is waning already (10 weeks)

Mine will wane from Feb onwards.
I'm teaching unvaccinated children who will spread it.
I'm sure the vast majority of people who are asked to work in a stuffy office with 30 plus people who are unvaccinated would not be happy to do so.
This new, more infectious virus infects kids just as much as adults and will be able to spread it.
I've come to terms with catching it.

I'm accepting of this but sad that I've been put in this position. Sad that noone, including parents actually care enough to petition for appropriate measures to be put in class. The govt have done a blinding job saying schools are safe.

I am not going anywhere crowded between now and the start of term because I need to be at work on the 4th

Seriously? You’ve basically put your life on hold. Just so you can catch Covid in school 1-2 weeks later. All you’ll achieve is instead of being off sick at the start of Jan, you’ll be off sick mid to late January instead.

I don’t really go out anywhere crowded anyway, unless you count the supermarket. But there’s no way I’d put my life on hold - just to catch Covid at work a few weeks later.

@WhenSheWasBad

I am not going anywhere crowded between now and the start of term because I need to be at work on the 4th

Seriously? You’ve basically put your life on hold. Just so you can catch Covid in school 1-2 weeks later. All you’ll achieve is instead of being off sick at the start of Jan, you’ll be off sick mid to late January instead.

I don’t really go out anywhere crowded anyway, unless you count the supermarket. But there’s no way I’d put my life on hold - just to catch Covid at work a few weeks later.

I'm certainly not putting my life on hold either certainly not for work purposes when noone else gives a stuff. I don't tend to go out much and have cancelled on a new year get together but only because I'm currently unwell with a virus and have no wish to catch covid as well.

If I had a job where I could work from home I could have continued with work and affected nobody. So I'd be very happy to go clubbing for NY if I wanted to if I had a work from home job. If I had to be able to leave the house to work, I'd be much more cautious. As would most people, I think?

Not me. This government, Mumsnet and my own employer has shown me time and again throughout the pandemic that I'm of no value. Am I hell going to restrict my plans in my own time.

So I'd be very happy to go clubbing for NY if I wanted to if I had a work from home job. If I had to be able to leave the house to work, I'd be much more cautious. As would most people, I think?

So to be clear, you think teachers and school staff, anyone in healthcare, anyone working in food distribution, supermarkets, those working in utilities, the blue light services, social services, anyone who's job could be considered essential or key etc. etc. should all stay at home whilst everyone else gets to go out and do what they want? I mean aside from the obvious double standards there, what do you think that will do to the economy?

any time a teacher is off can be spent with a very short stint of remote learning

are you sure? I had mild covid - took me 3 weeks to recover. No way would I have been able to do remote learning during that time - the cough alone was enough to prohibit me doing anything useful. If I am not in school because I am ill, I will not be facilitating remote learning. Or are we now expecting school staff to just work regardless of how they may feel?

An unvaccinated population? You mean children? They deserve a normal childhood and school is as essential as hospitals

Children are unvaccinated, yes - are you suggesting that they are NOT an unvaccinated population?

Does vaccination of children and ventilation of classrooms somehow prevent them having a normal childhood?

If schools are as essential as hospitals, why are there no effective mitigations funded or allowed in schools? NHS workers were prioritised for vaccines. Patients are tested on arrival in hospital, and there is separation between those who test positive and otherwise. There are reduced numbers, physical separation, PPE, screens.

I begrudge the HNS absolutely none of these - they are doing a sterling job under near-impossible demands. What I do wonder is why, if schools are as essential as hospitals, almost no effective mitigation is in place in schools at all, and any measures that are not explicitly prohibited (e.g. opening windows) are not backed up with any funding to allow rooms to be heated to a reasonable level.

@Whitefire

The majority of teaching staff will be double vaccinated and boosted by the time term starts, just like the majority of the working population. This is as good as it is going to get at the moment.

Most people will be working from home where possible or able to be in an environment where social distancing is possible. Teaching 30 lots of different kids, 5 lessons a day with just a mask and an open window. It will probably be a shit show with teachers and kids dropping like flies. Vaccinated or not, it's still getting people.

It will probably be a shit show with teachers and kids dropping like flies.

Dropping due to genuine illness or simply due to the need to isolate?

I think we need more evidence about how 'mild' omicron is.

@neveradullmoment99

Mine will wane from Feb onwards. I'm teaching unvaccinated children who will spread it. I'm sure the vast majority of people who are asked to work in a stuffy office with 30 plus people who are unvaccinated would not be happy to do so. This new, more infectious virus infects kids just as much as adults and will be able to spread it. I've come to terms with catching it.

Me too just a matter of time

Idk, I think people should make their own decisions. I just think that, after family, work is pretty much the priority for most people so most people will want to take precautions. I certainly don't think there should be any rules about it - just think it will be a natural tendency.

Catching Covid in school isn't a given. I've worked in London throughout and didn't catch it at school. I caught it at the theatre. I'm much more careful in public now so I don't have to be careful at school. It's not putting my life on hold. I do most things. Just not massive, crowded events a week before term starts.

any time a teacher is off can be spent with a very short stint of remote learning

Can you explain how this works?

If as a primary teacher I am ill, then my class is sent home at once until I am fit to come back in - which could be 10 days, or much longer? Who sets this home learning? Me? I am ill. My poor colleagues, who already have classes of their own?

In secondary, how would it work? If the English teacher and the history teacher are ill, do children go home for those periods? Do they sit in their normal classroom without supervision, expected to do 'home learning' on whatever device might be available?

I don't think you have thought that through. What is actually happening is that if a teacher is ill, any warm body is put in front of the class - in primary, we have had unqualified TAs, we have had receptionists, we have had lunchtime supervisors, we have had unsupervised student teachers, as we are utterly unable to afford or get supply staff. If they are lucky, some cover work has been set. If not, children are essentially given 'busywork' and child-minded. This can go on for weeks.

in secondary, equally, those subjects where a teacher is absent, a warm body - from another subject, or support staff - sits in front of the class and the class does busywork.

When the school runs out of warm bodies, it closes partially or wholly. However, education hasn't been going on for days or weeks by that time, with children developing huge gaps in their knowledge.

Of course, the government could help - making up all supply payments would be a really good start - but they won't.

@Blubells

It will probably be a shit show with teachers and kids dropping like flies.

Dropping due to genuine illness or simply due to the need to isolate?

I think we need more evidence about how 'mild' omicron is.

Both.

There are no supply teaching staff available as they're either ill or don't fancy coming into schools. Who can blame them? Two weeks before Christmas was awful. Covering classes last minute, putting groups together as lack of teachers. School staff are burnt out. And before anyone pipes up, I know many other work forces are too.

Dropping due to genuine illness or simply due to the need to isolate?

I don't know anyone working in a school who has had asymptomatic Covid, so has needed to isolate without being ill.

It's probably a viral load thing, but IME school staff have always been ill as well as positive.

@cantkeepawayforever

any time a teacher is off can be spent with a very short stint of remote learning

Can you explain how this works?

If as a primary teacher I am ill, then my class is sent home at once until I am fit to come back in - which could be 10 days, or much longer? Who sets this home learning? Me? I am ill. My poor colleagues, who already have classes of their own?

In secondary, how would it work? If the English teacher and the history teacher are ill, do children go home for those periods? Do they sit in their normal classroom without supervision, expected to do 'home learning' on whatever device might be available?

I don't think you have thought that through. What is actually happening is that if a teacher is ill, any warm body is put in front of the class - in primary, we have had unqualified TAs, we have had receptionists, we have had lunchtime supervisors, we have had unsupervised student teachers, as we are utterly unable to afford or get supply staff. If they are lucky, some cover work has been set. If not, children are essentially given 'busywork' and child-minded. This can go on for weeks.

in secondary, equally, those subjects where a teacher is absent, a warm body - from another subject, or support staff - sits in front of the class and the class does busywork.

When the school runs out of warm bodies, it closes partially or wholly. However, education hasn't been going on for days or weeks by that time, with children developing huge gaps in their knowledge.

Of course, the government could help - making up all supply payments would be a really good start - but they won't.

Last two weeks or term,we couldn't get supply for love nor money. I covered about three lessons during a PPA lesson and when my year 11 class had their mocks. This has knock on effects as the jobs I'd planned to do during those time (marking, prep, admin) have to be done after school. One of my team was off with suspected Covid. She was too ill to set cover work so I had to plan and resource her full week's timetable as well as my own. We had to use a TA to teach some of her groups and put the Year 11 groups together.

cantkeepawayforever really? We've been a very mixed bag where I work. I was asymptomatic, more or less (slight sniffle) as were 2 other colleague. About 7 were in the heavy cold territory and about 5 were really ill but not needing hospitalising. 1 came quite close, she thinks. Nobody has needed more than the 10 days off.

CovidforCrimbo,

In primary, it isn't generally possible to put groups together (we operate in separate groups inside as much as possible anyway to try to cut down rampant transmission) and we have almost no spaces big enough to do so. As we essentially work on a 1 teacher per class model, with nobody 'spare', an absent teacher can't be covered by a teacher, and we rapidly move through the few class TAs to the (illegal) use of 1:1 TAs and then totally unqualified staff. I think parents would be horrified if they really thought about it, but few seem to be aware or question what is going on.