Should Shielding be brought back?

[nettie68]

Should shielding be brought back for those that want it? I know some people prefered to prioritise their mental health and not shield but if clincially extremely vulnerable people wish to shield, then shouldn't there be the help to do so. At the moment, if you are CEV, you still need to attend work if you can't work from home. What about other household members, should their be support for them too, as if they need to go to work then they could still bring the virus home to the vulnerable person. Surely this would also alleviate some of the pressure on the hospitals as well.

OP could you take a sabbatical from work? Or unpaid leave or carers leave or change jobs.

I sympathise with you but people going through cancer treatment have always been in this situation ie at risk from colds, flu. My colleague, years ago, had blood cancer but in the end sadly died from pneumonia. My grandma died from pneumonia and she wasn’t going through cancer treatment but heart treatment. It is very sad but you and your husband have to weigh up the risks. I would talk to your employer. Most are more sympathetic than we think - if they can from a business case.

Inno, I agree, there are a very small number of people who can't get around their circumstances, so need extra support, financial or otherwise. This number is tiny though.

How old are you OP? Presumably In this sad situation, you have had many many talks with your husband over the years of what he wishes, what will happen to you after he does eventually pass,what he wants for you etc?

Will you continue working? do you work full time? will you go down to part-time? what is your financial situation, pension wise and life insurance. will the mortgage be paid off. will you continue to work, in this job, do you love this job, particularly want to continue? How many years of working do you have until you might retire?

Did your husband work for a big company? do they provide any assistance to him and you during this time?

I think you need to speak to your employers about unpaid leave and with the best will in the world hospitals are the most likely place to catch it.

@nettie68

Neither homeschooled prior to the pandemic, although it was on the radar for DS and has been absolutely marvellous for him.

DD will continue until she takes her GCSEs next year then shes going back to a normal college. Its has had its benefits and its drawbacks. DD liked it at the start but pretty much hates it now hence going back at the logical transition point. That said she has a friend with CEV siblings who has had to stay in school for the duration (homeschooling wasnt financially viable). It has left the friend significantly stressed with high levels of anxiety and has at points been lateral flow testing daily for fear of bringing covid home. There really hasnt been any good options for siblings/children of CEV individuals.

At the start of the pandemic as a household we all stopped out of house activities. At various stages weve stopped and started stuff depending on local risk and as it was clear some things worked and others were risky. for example DD eventually with persuasion went back to her youth group in september/October but she now wears an FFP3 mask. She has stopped for a bit due to Delta properly hitting the local schools badly and DS being so ill now anyway. We'll reassess come January. She gets together with her friend quite regularly but they both test prior to meeting up. But no she hasnt been swimming,to the cinema or public transport either.

Life is very different. Weve managed 4 cautious holidays or weekend breaks so it's not been all bad.

It may be the same storm but nobodies been in the same boats.

@nettie68

So this is my situation, my husband is receiving chemo for a cancer that is at this stage cureable. Chemo makes you immune suppressed so more likely to be seriously ill from covid. A positive covid test will also delay treatment which could push the cancer from cureable to incureable. I have to go to work in a job that is not covid secure and can't be done from home. If I bring home covid, I could potentially kill him and if that happens I have to live with that for the rest of my life. Now, what I am supposed to do? What would you do in my situation?

I'm genuinely sorry for your situation. But whenever there is serious illness in a household people need to make decisions about how to cope. A friends DS sustained life changing injuries in an accident last year, meaning she cannot work as she has to care for him. No one is paying her salary now she no longer works, despite the fact she is also saving the public purse a lot of money by taking on costly care, for a pitiful weekly benefit; but its the decision she felt she had to make nonetheless. Health issues almost always impact finances and the ability to work, and its not the policy of this government to provide very generous support in these situations. The only reason they did this earlier in the pandemic was because they must have thought it cheaper than the cost of CEV people becoming ill, and have obviously now revised this thinking. My point, this isn't a covid issue, this is an general ongoing issue about the inadequacy of the safety net for people whose ability to work is impacted by health. Temporary support specifically related to covid isn't the answer.

It should be offered. It wouldn't cost much in the grand scheme of government/ pandemic spending, frankly. I suspect that the reason it won't be is because everyone spent so long badmouthing "targeted protection" instead of lockdown. It feels (to some) like an admission of failure if we have to bring back shielding, and they'd rather the vulnerable died than have to admit they were wrong about lockdowns.

@Whichjab

The CEV are not more at risk of covid than they are of 'flu, pneumonia, RSV any kind of virus. The shielding wasn't really to help the individual, it was to prevent those most likely to get seriously ill from ending up in hospital at the same time. I live with a CEV, they were CEV before Covid and will be after.

Yes, but there are also many CEV people (not necessarily immuno suppressed) who did not need to shield against flu and other viruses widely in circulation. But with covid, a new/novel virus they are more vulnerable. I'm cev,have had pneumonia twice now - firstly with the swine flu 11 years ago and then with covid last year (both 'new' viruses). Not all cev people had to 'shield' prior to the pandemic, that seems to be a common misconception. I don't know what the answer is though, especially for people, like me, in a job where I'm at high risk of being exposed to covid. Hopefully things will have improved by Spring. Trying to keep positive.

@Izzypuss I think people truly don't realise how diverse "CEV" is. There are people who were basically well, led very full, normal lives before the pandemic, and never consciously thought of themselves as vulnerable... Obviously for them, shielding is a huge change and shock to the system. And then in the same group, people like me who are very obviously and unmistakably ill, and were ill in all the same ways pre-pandemic. Shielding is not so strange-feeling if you've already done half the things in the past anyway.

I think CEV folk all know this! But not sure the general public really get it.

I am CV supposedly. But my antibody levels from vaccine have not been measured ( I think I missed the boat on that one).
I think antibody levels should be measured for the CV/CEV (assuming they consent) and those with very low/no levels should form part of a voluntary new scheme. In this scheme if you cannot fufill your work from home, I do think you should get paid a special furlough, this also applies to other household members with a cap on payment.

This counts me out as I can WFH. I would imagine the overall numbers would be really low.
However from my perspective the issue is teenagers - who go to a huge school, want to lead normal lives, see friends and have hobbies. What do I do with them - force them to live an indoor life against their will? One has severe MH issues. It is probable that they could kill me. But they simply don't comprehend the risk levels this way.

OP's problems are not actually covid related, as such. They are cancer originated. And so would be so anyway. Just exacerbated by covid. Her poor Dh is at as much risk of catching a very nasty flu/other illness through her.

[quote Innocenta]@Izzypuss I think people truly don't realise how diverse "CEV" is. There are people who were basically well, led very full, normal lives before the pandemic, and never consciously thought of themselves as vulnerable... Obviously for them, shielding is a huge change and shock to the system. And then in the same group, people like me who are very obviously and unmistakably ill, and were ill in all the same ways pre-pandemic. Shielding is not so strange-feeling if you've already done half the things in the past anyway.

I think CEV folk all know this! But not sure the general public really get it. [/quote]
Yes. I agree.

The trouble is how should it be policed? There will be a very small number who perhaps should shield but as soon as this would be announced every man and his dog would jump on it and have an excuse to stay at home on full pay. It's like mask wearing, people are jumping on any reason not to wear them when really there should only be a very small amount of people who actually are exempt.
I'm really sorry for what you are going for however Covid isn't going anywhere, it isn't feasible for people to shield at the taxpayers expense for 2-6 months a year. Furlough cost a fortune and it won't be coming back (or at least it shouldn't). If this is a major worry for you I think you need to either look into taking a sabbatical or looking for another job that may be more suitable for your current needs.

All sorts of conditions went onto the shielding list early on, but it should be revised based on the mounting body of evidence as to which conditions really will lead to poor outcomes. People who need and want to shield should be supported yes. So a much smaller number of people but proper support that is likely to keep them safe.

Also there should be more support at work for people who want to keep working. A friend with an organ transplant worked out of the home for most of the pandemic, entirely his choice, with properly face fitted FFP3 masks and risk assessments by people who understand the field.

As others have said can you speak to your employer or look for a new job? There's lots of jobs that can be done partly from home that previously couldn't. Also you could buy proper masks and wear them like nhs staff have to.

I have a friend who is CV but who has mh problems too. They have been vaccinated but had severe reactions to all jabs because of their medical conditions. They live alone.
Previous shielding nearly broke them mentally but was safest physically.
Right now they're limiting being out and about but are starting to struggle mentally again.
I don't know what the answer is.

@Garysmum We measured my antibodies independently because it wasn't readily available through the NHS, and it's fairly easy to purchase a kit from a pharmacy to do it at home. You do have to be willing to prick and bleed yourself, though, which I realise not everyone would be okay with.

@Oblomov21

OP's problems are not actually covid related, as such. They are cancer originated. And so would be so anyway. Just exacerbated by covid. Her poor Dh is at as much risk of catching a very nasty flu/other illness through her.

It's true, he is vulnerable to any infection but the risk seems higher at the moment with the high rates of omicron. It's sounding like that everybody who is not shielding will get it at some point.

To be honest, I think even those who are shielding may well end up getting it. Fingers crossed that reports of its mildness are true - it may be that even CEV people largely do come through okay, albeit feeling worse than average.

@Oblomov21

How old are you OP? Presumably In this sad situation, you have had many many talks with your husband over the years of what he wishes, what will happen to you after he does eventually pass,what he wants for you etc?

Will you continue working? do you work full time? will you go down to part-time? what is your financial situation, pension wise and life insurance. will the mortgage be paid off. will you continue to work, in this job, do you love this job, particularly want to continue? How many years of working do you have until you might retire?

Did your husband work for a big company? do they provide any assistance to him and you during this time?

I'm 53. His cancer is cureable or at least it should be unless he gets very ill from catching covid or covid delays his treatment so we are not making any plans for him passing as we are trying to stay positive that he will come out the other side. I'm hoping to continue working full time and yes I do like my job but I know that shouldn't be my priority and if I need to give it up then I will but I'm unlikley to find something else that will pay the same. I need to keep earning as he is now on sick pay and that won't last forever, also not sure how long his work will keep his job open for.

@Innocenta

To be honest, I think even those who are shielding may well end up getting it. Fingers crossed that reports of its mildness are true - it may be that even CEV people largely do come through okay, albeit feeling worse than average.

Trouble is even getting it mildly will delay cancer treatment and that could affect his outcome.

The othering and unfounded assertions continue. All solved by putting us in free FFP3 masks 24 hours a day. Marvellous.

As others have said can you speak to your employer or look for a new job? There's lots of jobs that can be done partly from home that previously couldn't.

This seems like a sensible suggestion.

@nettie68 I completely see why you're so worried. I wish there was more help for people in your situation - it's only natural you're desperate to avoid anything delaying his treatment.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

The othering and unfounded assertions continue. All solved by putting us in free FFP3 masks 24 hours a day. Marvellous.

FFP3 masks wouldn’t solve everything, but would help. It’s help that’s not being provided right now. And I say this as someone who had to shield due to chemotherapy, and I’m still shielding now essentially.

When the next general election rolls around I will be looking VERY carefully at the policies for sick/disabled and voting accordingly. That’s long term though, obviously.