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Original poster

teenage daughter given different second dose?

43 replies

greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 15:26

so this morning myslef and my 17 yr old daughter (who has ASD for context as to why I was helping he at appointment)went for vaccinations. Mine was for a booster, dd was for her second dose. When I booked it stated the venue had both pfizer and moderna available. It also stated if for a second dose it needed to be the same as your first - which I knew.
My concern is my daughter has been given the moderna vaccination, but had pfizer for first dose. My understanding was that she should have same as first dose, and also that only pfizer was used for under 18s? We were very clear it was her second dose, and I challenged the nurse about this when she said it would be moderna(they didnt have any pfizer), but was told by the nure the guidance had changed and she could now have any vaccine for second dose.
When I have come home and tried to research this I cant find that new guidance anywhere at all. Does anyone know f this is right?
I am concerned and angry that she may have been given the worng vaccination.The nurse was incredibly dismissive of my concerns and really just wanted us out (which I understand given how bisy they are but still)(I am also angry with myself for not standing firm and refusing the vaccination.)How can I follow this up? Tried calling 119, to just have someone repeat to me off a script that 17yr olds are now eligible for a second dose.....and totally unable to answer my questions.
How can I follow ths up?

OP posts:
kweeble · 19/12/2021 15:31

Stop worrying - they follow guidance and she wouldn’t have been given it if it was a problem.

Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 15:36

@kweeble

Stop worrying - they follow guidance and she wouldn’t have been given it if it was a problem.
can you provide a link to that guidance then please? Because as I said I can see nothing to say this has been licenced for under 18s and we were deifnitely not consulted about being given an unlicenced medication? If this is new guidance, then great - but I would like to have been able to read that infromaiton to make an informed decision
OP posts:
Cookerhood · 19/12/2021 15:36

Moderna isn't licenced for under 18s so if they have given it to her it would be considered very serious. However, from a safety point of view it really won't do her any harm, so don't worry, & from an efficacy point of view it will be fine. They have to report this, so you must follow it up with your GP &/or the vaccination site. Is it on her NHS app? Was it definitely Moderna? This is why we don't have both at our site, too much scope for mistakes (some mistakes were made when we had AZ & Pfizer).

Cookerhood · 19/12/2021 15:36

Look up the Green book chapter 14a, that has all the information about the vaccines.

Cookerhood · 19/12/2021 15:39

I've never given Moderna so don't know much about it, however it looks as though it IS licenced for under 18s (my mistake). From the Green book:
"The Moderna vaccine (Spikevax®) was approved for use in the UK in January 2021. Following a study in over 3000 children aged 12-17 years, which generated additional safety and efficacy data, the approval was extended to those in this age group in August 2021."

Gladioli23 · 19/12/2021 15:39

Contact PALS at your local CCG. It shouldn't do her any harm, but she shouldn't have had Moderna as an under-18 as it's not formally licensed, and unless it's someone who it's expected wouldn't reattend they should be given the same for first and second. If there's a concern they won't reattend then it's permitted to give either though - so there isn't a risk attached particularly to having two different vaccines for first and second.

PALS will be able to make sure it gets back to whoever runs the centre and provide more training to the staff.

Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 15:40

thanks Cookerhood.
That is what I thought. TBH I know you are right about both safety and efficacy - but the fact it happened concerns me.
It was defintiely moderna - they told us that, as they didnt have any pfizer, which is why I questioned it. I felt very fobbed off when I challenged it tbh which made me doubt myself.
I am concenred though becuase it is in fact a serious drug error and reflects significant concerns about their practice as another error may have more serious consequences for someone.= which is why I am following up.

OP posts:
Gladioli23 · 19/12/2021 15:41

@Cookerhood

I've never given Moderna so don't know much about it, however it looks as though it IS licenced for under 18s (my mistake). From the Green book: "The Moderna vaccine (Spikevax®) was approved for use in the UK in January 2021. Following a study in over 3000 children aged 12-17 years, which generated additional safety and efficacy data, the approval was extended to those in this age group in August 2021."
That's very interesting Cooker - I also didn't think Moderna was for under 18s. I wonder if it's that the national protocol/PGD isn't for under 18s in Moderna so it would have to be directly prescribed?
Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 15:42

ah ok, so possibly is licenced, but then still should have been same as first dose.
We would defintiely have re-attended if need be so no concerns there.
Ah well, its done now but I will follow it up none the less as I do think they need some reminding /more training.

OP posts:
Gladioli23 · 19/12/2021 15:42

Right, the PGD is only for Over 18s which explains it.

www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/publication/patient-group-direction-for-covid-19-vaccine-moderna/

Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 15:43

ah yes, if PGD isnt for under 18s for moderna then technically she was given a non prescribed medicaiton. (it defintiely wasnt individually prescribed for her)

OP posts:
Cookerhood · 19/12/2021 15:48

Definitely needs following up.

BungleandGeorge · 19/12/2021 15:51

@greenweepingwillow

ah yes, if PGD isnt for under 18s for moderna then technically she was given a non prescribed medicaiton. (it defintiely wasnt individually prescribed for her)
How would you know if it was given under PGD or PSD?
Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 16:18

bunglenadngeorge because there was no prescriber there wehn we attended and the psd is for named pts and so the pt needs to be assesed by the prescriber and the psd issued. I know this didn't happen because I was there! I also know how PSDs work because I was involved in issuing them and prescribing individual doses of vaccine right back when vaccinations first started for my own cohort of mental health pateints!

OP posts:
Cuck00soup · 19/12/2021 16:29

You are right that she should have had Pfizer for her second jab and it sounds like something has gone wrong with procedures for her to have received Modena instead. As PP have said it’s worth following up. Vaccine centres are crazy busy at the moment and it’s really important that mistakes don’t happen because corners are being cut. We still need to work safely (Boris are you listening?).

Fortunately there is very little likelihood of harm to your DD and she will have good protection. I would reassure her about this.

Bubblty · 19/12/2021 16:32

I'd be worried they've given her a "booster" dose as they only give half the dose for the moderna booster

Hazelnutbean · 19/12/2021 16:35

The didn't follow protocol strictly, but it's a bit of a non-issue really... Nothing magically happens suddenly to a body on their 18th birthday.

Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 16:43

@Hazelnutbean

The didn't follow protocol strictly, but it's a bit of a non-issue really... Nothing magically happens suddenly to a body on their 18th birthday.
I would not agree that administering a non prescribed drug to someone was a non issue actually. I prescribe drugs all the time. If I made an error like it this it would be thoroughly investigated (as it should be) and recomendaitns made to reduce the likelihood of it happening again. The issue is a mistake was made. This time it may not have had serious consequences, but we dont know this next mistake wouldnt be more signifcant. The issue is the processes need to be reviewed to understand how the error hapened and reduce the cahnces of further errors happening. And yes, there is very little difference between 17 yr old and an 18 yr old, but she also should have had the same vaccination as her first dose so it was wrong on several levels.
OP posts:
Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 16:44

apologies for typos - Im also trying to cook the dinner!

OP posts:
Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 16:44

@Bubblty

I'd be worried they've given her a "booster" dose as they only give half the dose for the moderna booster
no, the nurse did say she would need the larger dose, so I am fairly confident she did have the correct dose.
OP posts:
Original poster
greenweepingwillow · 19/12/2021 16:47

@Cuck00soup

You are right that she should have had Pfizer for her second jab and it sounds like something has gone wrong with procedures for her to have received Modena instead. As PP have said it’s worth following up. Vaccine centres are crazy busy at the moment and it’s really important that mistakes don’t happen because corners are being cut. We still need to work safely (Boris are you listening?).

Fortunately there is very little likelihood of harm to your DD and she will have good protection. I would reassure her about this.

thank you. yes, I have reassured dd and downplaying it all to her. And yes, I totally get how busy the centres are just now, and what a great effort the staff are putting in - but yes it absolutely does need to be done safely.
OP posts:
RockallMalinHebrides · 19/12/2021 16:49

@Cookerhood

I've never given Moderna so don't know much about it, however it looks as though it IS licenced for under 18s (my mistake). From the Green book: "The Moderna vaccine (Spikevax®) was approved for use in the UK in January 2021. Following a study in over 3000 children aged 12-17 years, which generated additional safety and efficacy data, the approval was extended to those in this age group in August 2021."
It’s not covered by the PGD or national protocol - 18 and over only
Frazzled2207 · 19/12/2021 16:53

Will it not potentially have repercussions for her covid pass if two different vaccines?

CiderWithLizzie · 19/12/2021 16:55

My 17 year old (at the time) had Moderna for both jabs in the U.K. I assumed it was because she was within 3 months of her 18th birthday? First dose was early august and second end of September. She was 18 in November. She was fine.

Bubblty · 19/12/2021 17:03

@greenweepingwillow that's good. But still concerning if they've given her the wrong one.