To tell you that you're not exempt from PCR testing even if you've had covid in the last 90 days

[Moolia]

I have spoken to so many people recently who said that they had symptoms but didn't get a PCR as they had covid within the last 90 days so thought they were exempt from testing.

You are only exempt from LFTs, not PCRs.

Government and NHS rules say to get a PCR with new symptoms even if you've had covid in the last 90 days www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing/test-results/positive-test-result/

I personally now know 3 people who've had covid twice within 2 months. And with Omicron now dominant it's even more likely that people will get reinfected.

The top 5 symptoms are now: runny nose, headache, fatigue (either mild or severe), sneezing, and sore throat.

www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3103

If you have cold symptoms, don't rely on LFT tests, get a PCR.

@Moolia

Yes but that's because for some reason they are refusing to update the three symptoms even in the face of all the recommendations and scientific evidence. Current top symptoms are what I listed above.

So you are telling people to follow guidance on one part but not another?

I haven't looked recently but for a really long time you were unable to book a PCR if you'd had a positive test in the previous 90 days. It came up as one of the first criteria when starting a booking. If that's now changed there probably needs to be an awareness campaign as many people will remember that rule and not look to get a test.

New symptoms means just that. You recovered from the last infection, but have now started coughing again, developed a fever and/or lost taste/smell.

PCR s are not required for any other symptoms unless positive left or directed by a medical professional.

My Dad is positive and track and trace just called him and I asked him to ask them about this.

He was told he would be unable to have another PCR for 90 days from the date of his last positive test. Regardless of whether he had developed new symptoms in a couple of weeks.

That's what he was told by an "official" so you can see where the confusion develops.

It's madness isn't it? Even if you restrict PCR testing to the old three symptoms T&T are still telling people not to test at all.

Have a read of this www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3103

But why is it madness? Reinfection is not the norm and a pcr could yield an unreliable result due to previous infection

But how do you know its not the normal if T&T are telling people not to test (against NHS and government guidance)?

It sounds like Omicron is sufficiently different from Delta that you could easily have had Delta and then get Omicron. If all the people who've had Delta in the last 90 days are told not to retest then that is likely to significantly contribute to massively high Omicron rates - especially as Omicron seems milder and not generally associated with the old three so-called main symptoms.

It also lulls people in a false sense of security. I know people who feel that they don't need to follow the rules for the 90 days after getting covid as they think they can't get it again.

@Moolia do you think the symptoms are any new symptoms at all (e.g. runny nose). Or does it have to be one of the three?

Having such a dilemma here over whether to PCR my DC who has cold symptoms but no cough or temp etc. Had covid less than 90 days ago. If it's positive it could still be from the previous infection. But also I don't want to risk infecting anyone else.

Personally I would say it comes down to the type and variety of symptoms. Just a slightly runny nose with nothing else I probably wouldn't but if they also have a sore throat and headache, for example, I would test. I think that's the responsible thing to do, especially if you're seeing family over Christmas.

You could also do an LFT and if that's positive that's another indication that you should get a PCR. A negative won't rule it out but does give some comfort that they either don't have it or aren't massively infectious.

Thank you @Moolia. Went for PCR before I saw your replies. Sore throat initially followed by runny nose. I'm generally extra cautious but it felt the right thing to do. However I will feel terribly guilty if it comes back positive but was actually from before. Although I know we wouldn't know. Christmas day plans all off if positive etc. Maybe all for nothing. Feeling a bit sorry for ourselves but I know they'll be many in the same situation.

You're right OP and reinfection rates are climbing in those countries that publish reinfection data.

This is anecdotal but a relative of mine was told in hospital that the actual virus clears quite quickly and what happened with his tests was common
Tested a strong positive on LF (caught it in the pub with others watching the Euro tournament)
Was in hospital a few days later and in admission a positive PCR
Only in hospital 2 or 3 days and had a negative PCR just before being discharged though still poorly.
So in the space of 2 or 3 days went from postive to negative and was told this wasn't unusual at all but the norm

I wonder if the 90 days will be lowered now reinfections are rising. I know a few people who have it twice now but frustratingly many others seem to think that if they've had it once they won't get it again or don't need the vaccine

Ah I really hope that's true and it is consistent with what I've read - people can test positive for weeks but I think it's something like 16%. So the majority don't. I presume the longer it's been the less likely too. It's been 60 days for us. I'm hoping that's enough to mean that any positive would be more likely to be a new positive.

I thought the advice was not to PCR test within 90 days but this didn't apply to LFTs because they don't measure residual 'dead' virus. Has this changed? My DD had covid back in Sept and started doing the LFTs for school about 3 weeks later and they've all been negative since (a very quick strong positive when she started with symptoms).

@Moolia

It sounds like T&T are giving out the wrong advice then and are going against NHS and government guidance. No wonder rates are skyrocketing if people are wrongly being told not to test again for 90 days.

at least T&T aren't costing us loads of £££ to give out shit advice

I posted this the other day but DD had delta (I would assume as it was dominant) in October. She tested negative on lateral flow within about 7 days. Everything I read said not to test again for 90 days but the other day she was very closely exposed to confirmed omicron. She had a ‘phlegmy’ throat so I tested her on lateral flow and it was positive. She now has (very mild) symptoms. So that’s two infections in six weeks/ seven weeks.

If I hadn’t tested she would have been carting it around to my newborn nephew, her elderly grandparents without knowing it. So it’s worth bearing in mind.

Back at the start, was it not the case that you weren't discharged from hospital without a negative test result?

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

I thought the advice was not to PCR test within 90 days but this didn't apply to LFTs because they don't measure residual 'dead' virus. Has this changed? My DD had covid back in Sept and started doing the LFTs for school about 3 weeks later and they've all been negative since (a very quick strong positive when she started with symptoms).

I think it's the other way around. The guidance is not to do regular LFT testing for 90 days but if you get new symptoms you need a PCR.

But in my, and others that I've spoken to, experience, LFTs are going negative before the end of the 10 days isolation. So if you get new symptoms and positive LFT/PCR within 90 days it is a reinfection.

It's annoying that we can't rely on the government/NHS/PHE for up to date and accurate guidance on the top symptoms. They move so slowly. If you remember it took a lot of time and lobbying for them to accept there was community transmission back in March 2020 (people were being told by the NHS that they couldn't have covid unless they had travelled to China or Italy despite classic symptoms) and then to accept that loss of taste and smell was a symptom. That was found out by the Zoe study. The Zoe study has been lobbying them to change the top three symptoms for testing as they are no longer accurate but it's been months now and they still haven't changed them.

‘think it's the other way around. The guidance is not to do regular LFT testing for 90 days but if you get new symptoms you need a PCR.‘

Where are you seeing this? None of the guidance I’ve read is clear at all and says if you do take part in community or workplace testing and test positive with LFD to treat as per guidance on testing positive. So it’s left to the workplace or individual .

Actually I'm not sure now where I got that from but I'm sure I read it. It could just be that my DC's secondary school exempts children from LFTs for 90 days after a positive test. I thought it was official guidance but I might be mistaken about the LFTs.

What is clear is that if you have new covid symptoms within 90 days of a positive test you are not exempt from taking another PCR.

I was part of a trial last December after I had covid & I continued to test positive on a PCR for 8 weeks post infection 😱 for that reason I will not be doing a PCR within 90 days. Happy to do LFTs as with my second covid infection in October, my LFs returned to negative.

OP. People are just following advice from T&T. Even hospitals are following the 90 day thing. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I know you can catch covid twice, I’ve had it twice myself but reinfection within 3 months is rare. And it absolutely is possible to continue to test positive on PCRs post infection!

But why are T&T giving out the opposite information to what is on the NHS and government websites?

I really don't think reinfection within 3 months is that rare, especially with Omicron.

Thanks op, agree the guidance DOES say to take a PCR of new symptoms post infection occur - which obviously means if you recover, feel fine and then get one of the three symptoms out the blue take a test.

I got Covid 4 weeks ago, still not feeling 100% over it. Did a lateral flow yesterday, it came up positive. I had no additional symptoms, thought there was no way I could catch it again so quickly, so have come to stay with my elderly in-laws

I think I have got it again - probably got Delta before and since got Omicron.
Omicron is like a different illness - previous very recent Covid antibodies give you no protection against catching it again!

Sorry, meant to say I had a negative LF in between.