Schools - why are they doing this?

[Scrooge89]

Why are the media preparing us for school closures? They simply can’t do this to us…

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-59673271

Not to my children. My youngest struggled so much at home and was one of the 25% who couldn’t go to school (although I saw how much some people fudged the key worker card I may have to do it).

Absolutely no retired teachers anywhere are going to willingly head back into Covid-ridden schools just to "help out". Check out the DfE's Facebook page for the utter ridicule they're receiving from teachers for that suggestion (and most of their other posts).

Amber Artichoke
A genuine question to you as as a teaching professional. But why can’t individual schools make their own rules like eg masks in classroom and corridors? Surely, head teachers should be able to make their own call as they do with many other rules? When Covid rates differ over the UK as well as between communities, then why can’t heads enforce different rules?
Agreed re LFTs. This should be a priority and a cost the government should take as the consequences of non attendance are far greater.

But why can’t individual schools make their own rules like eg masks in classroom and corridors?

Because Twats4Them en-masse accuse them of child abuse.

You wouldn't believe the letters heads are getting over this shit.

We can - and I do as a Head. It's worked for us - we've only had 6 cases since the start (which didn't spread due to constant mask-wearing in classrooms). We're independent though, so we do what we think is right (including on-site testing 3 x per week). Not sure state Heads have the same liberty...

@AmberArtichoke

Absolutely no retired teachers anywhere are going to willingly head back into Covid-ridden schools just to "help out". Check out the DfE's Facebook page for the utter ridicule they're receiving from teachers for that suggestion (and most of their other posts).

Yes I know. I was being sarcastic. I'm a teacher (current, not retired) and it's blindingly obvious it will never work. I'm not even sure if the dfe believe in it.. it's surely just so they can say they are doing something.

would prefer schools to stay open even class sizes return to the 40+ per teacher my mother taught after WWII in NE England

I’m just musing the differences in teaching from now to then.

Curriculum expectations
Behaviour
SEND
Planning
Marking
Assessment
Lesson observations
Learning walks
PMR
Pupil progress meetings
CPD
Target setting
Differentiation

The two roles are probably incomparable.

I wonder if you would still like Ofsted to carry on inspecting lessons during a pandemic whilst random people were teaching these classes of 40 under the current framework?

@ArthurTudor yes I got that - was just backing you up! Absolutely ludicrous suggestion - you can picture them in the DfE office saying "starter for 10, let's bring retired teachers back!".

I’m a teacher and I’m pee’d off at how many parents are up in arms about the potential of schools closing. I appreciate school closures are horrendous but how do you propose we keep schools open when there are no staff to teach? I caught Covid (at school) and was really poorly. A colleague of mine was in intensive care for 2 months. There are no supply teachers. Online teaching is a no fun (particularly when I’m also trying to homeschool my own ds) but if it happens, it’ll be happening because it’s a last resort.

AmberArtichoke state heads should’ve able to make a call as you do. There are several articles I’ve seen highlighted from the Daily —wail—Mail where state heads have made some fairly unpopular and draconian uniform/behaviour rules which are 100% mainstream in independent schools. They seem to lead to better results (or so they argue),so a serious public health problem should be something they can make some waves on. It’s very sad that these leaders are not allowed to lead in the most effective way. Well done you and I hope you continue to keep a lid on this craziness!

Yes agreed it shouldn’t be a one size fits all approach. Our school (secondary in a town)have so far had 30 ish cases consistently every week (some obv the same cases over a fortnight), teaching staff fine ish so far. What the government are missing is that with these issues, next time there’s a new variant, people will be reluctant to bother being vaccinated/boosted yet again, as if schools close each time, the last resort, what’s the point unless you’re older or vulnerable or particularly keen to be vaccinated.

@TheDuchess1979

I’m a teacher and I’m pee’d off at how many parents are up in arms about the potential of schools closing. I appreciate school closures are horrendous but how do you propose we keep schools open when there are no staff to teach? I caught Covid (at school) and was really poorly. A colleague of mine was in intensive care for 2 months. There are no supply teachers. Online teaching is a no fun (particularly when I’m also trying to homeschool my own ds) but if it happens, it’ll be happening because it’s a last resort.

I know what you mean. People are angry about potential closures (rightly so) but not angry enough with the gov for doing nothing to make schools safer for children and staff.

Many in the media were up in arms about mask wearing in corridors, the gov are too scared to mandate it for classrooms. But surely we are at the stage where we need to do something to try to stop it spreading so schools can stay open. Masks are far, far from ideal, yes there are problems with them...but we surely need to do something else to try to help? I'm talking from a secondary perspective, apologises primary colleagues, I know it's more problematic for younger children so not as simple as I've stated here

@CovidCath

Amber Artichoke A genuine question to you as as a teaching professional. But why can’t individual schools make their own rules like eg masks in classroom and corridors? Surely, head teachers should be able to make their own call as they do with many other rules? When Covid rates differ over the UK as well as between communities, then why can’t heads enforce different rules? Agreed re LFTs. This should be a priority and a cost the government should take as the consequences of non attendance are far greater.

If you want to know the answer to that, perhaps ask the poster above, @TraumatisedinTwickenham, who was extolling the virtues of a certain group in the media, UsforThem. They have a LOT to answer for (and none of it good).

Busybee5000
I don’t think people will not get vaccinated. The problem is they won’t isolate! I think if you have a positive test after the jabs it’s too easy to say “bugger it, I’m ok”. I have not had a PCR test after a positive LFT. Having been through a previous one hour call with test and trace a few months ago after a family member was positive, I’m not doing it again. I’m home for 10days and have my neighbours shopping if we need. As there is a delay in PCRs this week, my fear was that after getting a test, a possible delay in result would push my isolation period several days down the line. I’m not going to do a PCR simply to help government numbers- I’ll isolate as a sensible person and crack on with Christmas. Having spoken to friends/colleagues this week, I’m now well aware that lots of people are walking round with omicron as it’s like a cold and not bothering to do a LFT as they’re double jabbed and know they’ll probably be ok!!

@Appuskidu I think a lot of schools would like to see Ofsted inspectors filling the gaps in teaching!

I’m a primary teacher and some of the comments on here make me so sad but also so cross.

Let me start by saying that I 100% appreciate that children being at home is extremely hard for the majority of parents.

However, the amount of parents saying it’s not their job to teach their kids - we’re you actually teaching them?
I set a full timetable of lessons for my kids; this included 1x live lesson a day and at least another 3/4 lessons which I had pre-recorded, added worksheets/ tasks too as well as being online all day for those that needed help. I don’t mean all day like 9-3 school hours, I mean I’d log in at 8am latest and still be online at 9pm for those who couldn’t access a laptop til the evening. I wasn’t going to disadvantage those kids just because they couldn’t access work in normal school hours.

Live lessons are totally no good for primary kids so a full day of this (as some are suggesting) is just pointless. Loads of them have older siblings who need the computers for their own live lessons and most of them just stared at each other’s video feed and didn’t concentrate!
So no, your child sitting in a live feed lesson all day is totally ridiculous - they don’t do this at school so it’s unlikely to work at home.

We made sure that every child had contact from a teacher so did some of your kids actually ‘do nothing’ all that time?

We did all this whilst still working and teaching in schools for the key worker children so it’s not like the kids were just left to fend for themselves.

I know not all schools were like this and there were some that got rubbish provision but I really don’t understand how SO many parents claim they didn’t get anything and their children were so alone for so long.

We’re all in agreement I’m sure that closing schools is not ideal however I do feel like the parents that are so cross about this, are also the ones that would be complaining that their children aren’t getting what they normally do at school because of the huge amount of staff with Covid. (And no… they’re not isolating and taking unnecessary time off as suggested.. people who work in schools know how hard short staffing can be so don’t just go off for no reason!)

I know this post will probably get some backlash and honestly I can’t imagine how much harder other sectors have it but it’s just draining to keep reading posts about teachers being rubbish etc!

Us4Them is it? Brilliant. The ones who have kids’ interests at heart? Well, some kids’ interests. They certainly don’t give a shit about kids like my ds who caught covid and it damaged his heart. They don’t give a shit about kids who’ve missed education due to long covid or health problems left by the disease. They don’t give a shit about kids like ds who are still in pain nearly 2 years on. Because wearing a mask is worse than all that, in their tiny little minds.

A “parents’ group”* that had the ability to prevent that happening to other children, but instead did all they could to encourage spread and damage children.

That Us4Them? Yeah, no thanks.

*political lobbying group

I’m (yet) another teacher who doesn’t want school closures. So I’m mindblown at anyone who can support that group, because, as others have pointed out upthread, their pushing for no mitigations leaves schools vulnerable to closures. So if we do get closures, you know who to blame.

@Xenia

I would prefer schools to stay open even class sizes return to the 40+ per teacher my mother taught after WWII in NE England. We could also tighten up rules so that no pay when off sick other than SSP after day 3 and also once you have a negative PCR you go in. also teachers with covid but are in the one third with no symptoms could certainly teach classes of children in many cases if most of the children have had covid anyway.

Ah the good old days of 'chalk and talk' eh? When you delivered the same lesson at the board and a room full of kids just sucked it up. Before Ofsted/learning styles/individualised teaching/ inclusion/ stroppy parents/meetings with social workers/speech therapists/autism support/outreach/parents evening/ individual reports/pupil progress meetings/planning meetings/curriculum meetings/subject leader responsibility/governor meetings/SLT/pupil premium meetings....etc etc etc...I've missed a few hundred other things I'm sure. Things have changed a little since the last century believe it or not 🙄

@Zotter

Long CoVid should be considered too.

Long Covid Statistics in children:

77,000 children, aged 2-16, now living with LongCovid in the UK.

This has increased by +8,000 from last month. (Dec 21)

2-11 : 23,000
12-16: 54,000

Of which 14,000 have suffered for more than a year.

Where are those stats from please? Thanks.

@CovidCath thank you - I've been pretty much dancing to my own tune since September with this. Can my child come back into school before they've received their negative PCR results? No. Family members positive but can they come back in? No. Not until negative PCR. Pupil positive LFD? Every close contact out for a PCR and don't return until negative. They have a cold / cough - can they come in? No. Not until negative PCR. There's no support from the government, but if we want to keep schools open in current times, we have to be brutal as Heads. There's no other way to protect staff, families and other pupils. The government are happy for covid to rip through schools - and just look how it's working out for them...!

My son and half his class are recovering from covid. It has been terrible. So yes, they can do this.

Mark my words, there will be an announcement on January 2nd that schools have closed or are doing 1/2 school half home. My kids are spread across three different schools all of which have been rife with covid within a couple of days of going back. I don't see a solution but agree that home learning is an absolute disaster. But seeing as there is literally nothing we can do about it, might aswell carry on. Noone is going to follow rules over xmas or new years most of the workforce be it teachers or whoever will all be down with something if not covid and that's just the way it is

I would prefer schools to stay open even class sizes return to the 40+ per teacher my mother taught after WWII in NE England.

Modern classrooms can't fit 40+ kids in a room. My child is at a school built with Gove specs and there's classrooms that don't even fit 30 desks (they aren't for Sixth Form who have up to 20 in a class)

[quote AmberArtichoke]@CovidCath thank you - I've been pretty much dancing to my own tune since September with this. Can my child come back into school before they've received their negative PCR results? No. Family members positive but can they come back in? No. Not until negative PCR. Pupil positive LFD? Every close contact out for a PCR and don't return until negative. They have a cold / cough - can they come in? No. Not until negative PCR. There's no support from the government, but if we want to keep schools open in current times, we have to be brutal as Heads. There's no other way to protect staff, families and other pupils. The government are happy for covid to rip through schools - and just look how it's working out for them...! [/quote]
I am a parent, not a teacher or a head teacher and I absolutely agree with you.

I have been following the guidelines that were stated way back in August 2020 here in Scotland. So mask up, wash hands/sanitise regularly and only go out if you absolutely have to (which I had to, today, because I found out I could not use my free school meal vouchers in Tesco's online shop so off I went to do my shopping to make sure that loads of food was in for the wains.

On Wednesday I took my daughter to her primary school and was told, there are only 3 classes in as they had 2 covid cases in one of the classes and another member of staff had it as well. I'm at college, online learning and had an assessment to do that day. I figured if my daughter can wear her mask in the corridors and moving around in the classroom, wash hands/sanitise regularly (pretty much what we do when we have to be in college physically) then she would be ok. When we picked her up, only 17 pupils came out of the school. This is a school that is strict on hygiene, ventilating the building by opening the doors that are safe to do so, windows and so on. They did not have a single covid case since it all began and now they do have cases.

This variant is worse than the original. So I phoned the school yesterday to say that my daughter would not be back in until after the Christmas holidays as I felt it was not safe for her or the staff. They were absolutely fine with it. So, they miss out on their christmas dances, Santa popping in to see them (really the janitor) and all of the things that the PTA had hoped would be in place for them.

I absolutely hate covid, not the people who are trying to mitigate its spread, but the actual virus itself. I hate it. I'm double vaxxed and I am still taking precautions because I learned through a unit in college years ago, prevention of infection and have been using hand sanitiser whilst out and about since 2005, since before it became a popular tool that everyone has in their handbags. I learned to watch human behaviour on public transport, coughing and sneezing into their hands and then touching the poles to hold onto as they are getting off the buses - oh my word it repulsed me. And wains are worse generally speaking. They use their Glesga handkies (sleeves) to wipe their noses, and get all manner of parasites as well because they don't have the logical reasoning skills yet to figure out, if they touch something, then touch their face, they could be infected with something.

You are so right about learning. Every day is a school day, even after you have left school, there is always something new to learn. They learn by watching nature, they learn by reading books, they even learn with educational apps these days.

So I am one of the parents who have the teachers backs because I can see how difficult and worrying it can be for you all. You don't want to catch this thing and neither do I, or my wains. Thank you for everything you do for our children. I appreciate you all.

We could also tighten up rules so that no pay when off sick other than SSP after day 3 and also once you have a negative PCR you go in

You know that covid isn’t the only illness out there? And that school staff can get sick with the full spectrum of illness and disease?

I teach and whatever we do, it isn’t our decision as it’s the governments. Also, we aren’t closed we just move to remote learning. I work just as many hours during remote learning days as I do when we’re in the building. We hate it as well as many teachers are juggle remote learning for their own children or, as in my case, entertaining a toddler, as well as teaching full time from home. So please don’t lay blame at our door because, as I’ve already said, it isn’t our choice. We hate it just as much!