Vaccinations are a feminist (and fattist) issue

[Worldgonecrazy]

Not sure how many of us subscribe to the brilliant Caroline Criado Perez newsletter. She’s the author of Invisible Women - highly recommended reading. This week’s newsletter contained important information regarding the efficacy of vaccination, particularly in women, because our fat distribution is different to the default male.

Link here newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/issues/invisible-women-default-male-injections-904923

In summary, Injecting into fat rather than muscle can make the vaccine less effective and also increases the risk of side effects. Women’s fat distribution means we have more subcutaneous fat in the shoulder area, and also anyone male or female who is carrying excess body fat around the injection site should also request a longer needle to ensure the vaccine is injected into a muscle and not into fat.

@ErrolTheDragon the whole thread could be read as casting doubt, so I think posters should be aware of this. Maybe a better place to post this information would be in the data and stats thread?

It's not anti vax. It's pro women's health.

Maybe a better place to post this information would be in the data and stats thread?

It could certainly go there as well. But many people don't read that thread.

". It is recommended that vaccinators assess the area where they are going to give a vaccine and decide which length needle is required "

I can just imagine the threads from all the people who feel they were fat shamed because they got given the fat people's needle.

@visitingagain

This is an extremely niche problem though isn't it? I've had regular blood tests for years and have been all sizes from 10-18 and absolutely no difference at all in the size of needle, pain etc. I'm not sure there's any need for people to be demanding extra long needles at the clinic.

This comparison is non-sensical, though, because blood tests are taken via a vein, usually in the elbow or hand, and not from either fat or muscle.

And the needles are all the same size, it's the skill of phlebotomist which makes the difference as to whether it hurts or not, or whether it bruises.

Another anti vaxxer thread, how many more must we endure!

[quote visitingagain]@ErrolTheDragon the whole thread could be read as casting doubt, so I think posters should be aware of this. Maybe a better place to post this information would be in the data and stats thread? [/quote]
So you wish to police discussion, stop posters from questioning genuine concerns? Your posts are more anti vaccs as you are suggesting we shouldn't question anything.

Very interesting.

I had my flu jab the other day and although I felt the pinch going in I can't feel anything that would tell me I've been vaccinated - no lump or soreness - which is unusual for me personally. I have extremely fat arms so after reading this it seems I've been injected into fat. Next time I'll ask for a longer needle. Thank you for bringing it to attention.

This is really interesting (and in no way anti-vax) - it’s astounding how little the female body is taken into account! Anecdote alert, I have an obese family member who suffered the worst side effects from the vaccine - I wonder was it related to this?

Given that there was a thread where employers were requesting staff to get their vaccinations on a Friday so they didn’t need time off in case of side effects, surely anything that can be done to reduce risk of side effects and improve efficacy of the vaccine response is a good thing?

visitingagain you are putting 2 and 2 together and making 5 here. It's a legitimate concern and definitely something I had never heard about before. I'm having my booster this afternoon and have a distinctly wobbly upper arm, so it does make me wonder if it will be as effective. Obviously I will still have the jab.

*A wide variation exists in thickness of the deltoid fat pad, with women having significantly more subcutaneous fat than men. A standard 5/8 inch (16mm) needle would not have achieved sufficient penetration for true deltoid intramuscular injection in 17% of men and nearly 50% of women in the study population.

You have an odd definition of 'niche'. Why are you being so dismissive of an effect which could affect nearly half of women*

It's possible it doesn't affect as many people as that report makes out because in my experience, the needle is far longer than 16 mm long, when I had my jabs it must have been an inch long, possibly more, the same has been the case on all the footage of vaccinations I've seen on TV, a long needle going into people's arms.

You'd have to be very very overweight for it to not go through to the muscle, a tiny minority, nowhere near 50% of women.

Just had my booster and it looked like a pretty long needle. It also really hurt going in, which I've not experienced before.

[quote visitingagain]@ErrolTheDragon the whole thread could be read as casting doubt, so I think posters should be aware of this. Maybe a better place to post this information would be in the data and stats thread? [/quote]
I agree with you. if you look at the OP's posting history it's clear they have an antivax agenda and lean towards conspiracy theory beliefs. I think this is a sly way to encourage fears about the vaccine on a forum frequented mainly by women, by pretending the concern is a feminist one.

This is from Caroline Criado Perez and it is a feminist issue, whatever the "agenda". It's not an anti vaxx thread.

There are plenty of legitimate concerns about the vaccine, the importance of having it for public safety has no bearing on those.

This is not a concern about the vaccine itself, whatever the OP's beliefs. This is about a sex based issue. If you don't agree that CCP has it right, please refute it with facts and data.

Gosh this is really interesting. A work colleague who is over weight had his booster on Tuesday and the site where he had the injection was really swollen and raised on Wednesday

But it makes sense.

Whether this thread was intended to be vaguely anti vax, it does need to be talked about. If a longer needle is needed to ensure it is delivered in to the muscle that we absolutely should be making moves towards that.

It could mean the difference between actual life or death.

I personally find it really interesting and maybe seen (?) a consequence of this on Wednesday at work. A colleague was having their booster.

On a side note, I have all the jabs going, I am double jabbed, I work with in the NHS, I know how bad covid but please don't try and police other peoples views. I see this in work and its unpleasant. I think perhaps some people are being a little paranoid about this particular thread.

This is really interesting. I'm a vaccinator for both covid and flu (and others) and when we give covid vaccines we swap the needle to a longer one if needed (we assess individually as not all obese people need it) but the flu vaccines are already drawn up and have a needle attached that we can't change. I have struggled with a few, but there's no alternative so just have to palpate the muscle and pick the best spot.