61 people on two flights to NL from SA test positive for Covid. How?

[Tryingtryingandtrying]

Aren't they supposed to test before flying? Or are they all vaccinated and therefore not mandatory, but they have chosen not to? This is a really high number, much higher than I would have thought, must be pushing 10% of passengers and that is before it has spread to the others?

This should never have been allowed to happen.

I feel so sorry for the flight crew.

@DoormatBob

So this new variant is so dangerous all these people didn't even know they had it? I assume none of them appeared to be terribly ill?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist of anti vaxxer but it doesn't seem to make much sense anymore.

It’s not “new news” that people can be shedding Covid-19 when asymptomatic or presymptomatic. That’s what makes it so hard to contain.

I haven’t seen any announcement as to whether the 61 had Omicron or another variant. No doubt that it being looked at urgently.

It was a KLM flight so all passengers over 13 were required to have an antigen test 24 hours before boarding.

@DoormatBob

So this new variant is so dangerous all these people didn't even know they had it? I assume none of them appeared to be terribly ill?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist of anti vaxxer but it doesn't seem to make much sense anymore.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this evolves over the next week or so.

Border closing at the first sign of problems seems to have gone from being somewhat tardy (some countries, spring 2020) to tripwire (yesterday)…….

@itsallgoingpearshaped

This should never have been allowed to happen.

I feel so sorry for the flight crew.

apparently the flight crew were allowed home before anyone else.

there is a new yorker reporter among the passengers who has been tweeting about it and it sounds completely shambolic, depriving everyone of food, water and everything else.
They were kept together for hours on end so even though currently negative could well be positive soon.

Does make you wonder about all the people who will have arrived from SA in the last week or so with no checks other than a prebooked day 2 test that nobody actually checks that you actually do. If the new variant isn't already here I'd be extremely surprised. People will be incubating it, even if not actually ill with it yet. It's probably already spreading.

@neithernever

The LFT makes sense for a few but that many?

I don't know if vax gets you out of testing for those flights, but I know it does at our local theatre and I think it's one of the most pointless rules we've had - certainly up there with not being allowed to sit down in an empty field.

Either make everyone show a negative test or don't bother and stop the bloody pantomime, because that's exactly what it is.

YY I agree with this. Vaccinated people can have and spread Covid so there's no point only asking for tests from unvaccinated.

@ShinyHappyPoster it's not about reducing the risk to zero. It's about managing the odds.

The odds are an unvaccinated person testing positive are far higher than the odds of a vaccinated person testing positive.

It's perfectly logical to require negative tests from the people most likely to have covid. There's still a good chance of a false negative, just like some vaccinated people will still get covid. It doesn't make it pointless.

So this new variant is so dangerous all these people didn't even know they had it? I assume none of them appeared to be terribly ill?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist of anti vaxxer but it doesn't seem to make much sense anymore.

I guess that's the hope isn't it? A brand new highly transmissible variant (transmissible enough that it overtakes delta?) BUT far less serious?

If that was the case and they worked that out, I guess they'd probably almost "want" it to seed - if only to get rid of the (most serious yet?) delta?

They were kept together for hours on end so even though currently negative could well be positive soon.

They'd just spent 11 hours on a flight with half of the same people so they may well have caught it already.

Why is it a pantomime? Unvaccinated people are much more likely to test positive than vaccinated people. Why shouldn't they have to at least do a test?

Double jabbed are more likely to be asymptomatic and spread it without knowing

The variant has only really been detected for 2 weeks. No one knows if it is more deadly or even less deadly.
Lots of people I am sure will still get it mildly even if it is more deadly.
But it takes up to a week after infection before you get symptoms, average about 3 days. Then another few weeks to be hospitalised for those who get it badly, then another few weeks to die for those unfortunate souls.
Just because some people have tested positive does not tell us whether these people will all stay at the mild stage or not.

There’s a report in the Guardian of more people in their 20s and 30s in South Africa being hospitalised with serious illness, with the Omicron variant. So too early to say it’s milder IMO.

So this new variant is so dangerous all these people didn't even know they had it? I assume none of them appeared to be terribly ill?

Indeed, that was what I was wondering.

I remember at one point hearing that most mutations of viruses make them more innocuous.

Yes the - most mutations make viruses more innocuous has been constantly misquoted.
We have had hundreds of variations of covid, most you will never hear of. That does not mean a more dangerous variant can't emerge.

@PrincessPaws

They were kept together for hours on end so even though currently negative could well be positive soon.

They'd just spent 11 hours on a flight with half of the same people so they may well have caught it already.

Planes are some of the safest places to be. Mask wearing heavily policed, air filtration, etc. Far more likely to get it at the boarding gate or stuck in a queue at the airport.

With LFT only 50-60% of positive cases picked up. Early or late stage disease not picked up.

I don't think the variant is dangerous because people get it 'worse' but because it transmits more easily and because people may not have immunity to it despite vaccines or already having Covid.

@dabbydeedoo its not true that planes are safe.
But if this virus is highly infectious, people could have caught it at the airport or on the plane so would not yet be showing any symptoms.

On planes you can remove masks to eat and drink so people take their time over eating and drinking if they don’t like to wear a mask. Especially on a long flight.

[quote julieca]@dabbydeedoo its not true that planes are safe.
But if this virus is highly infectious, people could have caught it at the airport or on the plane so would not yet be showing any symptoms.[/quote]
How isn't it true? How many confirmed cases are from planes?

I didn't say 'safe' BTW, I said safer than other places. Amazing how many people I know won't fly because it's 'so dangerous' but have no problem sitting in a packed Wetherspoons or crammed onto a packed tube carriage on a Saturday night.

People on the flight have already reported that around 30% of people weren't wearing masks.

I didn't say 'safe' BTW, I said safer than other places. Amazing how many people I know won't fly because it's 'so dangerous' but have no problem sitting in a packed Wetherspoons or crammed onto a packed tube carriage on a Saturday night.

Yup, fly into LHR having social distanced at departure airport (‘cos many foreign airports are still keen on that) masked most/all of the flight, movement in aisles restricted as much as possible…e-gates on arrival …so ping through …….and then …..board TfL bus or the Piccadilly line and think ……

@MerryMarigold

I don't think the variant is dangerous because people get it 'worse' but because it transmits more easily and because people may not have immunity to it despite vaccines or already having Covid.

Yes at a population level, transmissibility is as much of a concern as severity.

A virus that kills 1 in 100 of those it infects but infects 50% of the population will kill more people than one which kills 4 in 10 but only infects 10%.

You are infectious up to seven days before any symptoms whatsoever. In our case we were ill, but LFT and PCR kept turning up negative even though it was evident it was covid, they finally turned positive on day six by which time had I gone out, I would have infected hundreds of people.

IF the SA variant is similar as it is likely to be most countries probably have lots of cases already. The no cases here idea is just based on yet to be found. Unless you are going to stop all travel it will circulate. Particularly as so many people bend the rules by flying to a country they will be still be accepted and then using connecting flights.

Some tough decisions need to be made very quickly, the return of full testing for travel surely has to be number one on the list, as much as I would personally loathe the flaff it is going to at least reduce the numbers even if it won't eliminate them.

It doesn't make sense to say it's ok only to test unvaccinated because they are more likely to have it.

I dispute that but let's say it's true.

The only thing that matters in this scenario is whether someone ACTUALLY has it, nothing to do with the odds.

It is just more theatre. Same concept as vaccine passports