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Related: Lockdown Learning, discuss home schooling during lockdown.

What does cancelling Christmas actually mean?
311

User135644 · 27/11/2021 09:15

A lot of talk and fear now that Christmas is going to be screwed again with this new variant causing a lot of fear and panic.

What does that actually mean though in practice? Christmas to me is spending time with family and i'll be doing that regardless. They aren't going to stop people visiting relatives this year (at least not locally).

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Rose40Berry · 28/11/2021 19:18

@Mantlemoose

Last year, my elderly DM spent Christmas Day alone. My DSis and her DP (who had a nervous breakdown due to Covid) spent Christmas Day alone. My DP and I spent Christmas Day together. This year, we'll be doing exactly what we as a family want to do irrespective of any 'restrictions' they want to bring in. If I'm not at 'your' house what I do does not affect 'you' in any way shape or form. We'll all LFT before we go to DM and that's good enough for us.

Ummm what you do in your house directly affects the rest of us - because if you get covid and get sick and need a hospital bed, that’s one less bed for the rest if us which means MORE PEOPLE DYING OF THINGS THAT ARE NOT COVID AS WELL AS PEOPLE DYING FROM COVID. These are quite basic realities when we only have limited beds. It also means those of us with families who are doctors have to have our loved ones put at risk by your selfishness, if you choose to ignore essential restrictions, because you will need essential care from them if you get sick. But sure, pretend your choices have no impact on the rest of society…
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GoldenOmber · 28/11/2021 19:24

Social isolation and loneliness have some pretty dire health consequences. If you’re very worried about people taking up NHS beds, you should be factoring that in too.

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julieca · 28/11/2021 19:53

@GoldenOmber that is true. But that is people who see nobody day to day or very rarely. They existed before the pandemic and will exist after. Are you doing anything about it?

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GoldenOmber · 28/11/2021 20:03

[quote julieca]@GoldenOmber that is true. But that is people who see nobody day to day or very rarely. They existed before the pandemic and will exist after. Are you doing anything about it?[/quote]
Yes, thanks. I’ve spent a long time working in social care, both patient-facing roles and more senior. That enough for you, or would you like me to send you my cv as well? Hmm

And no, it’s not just people who have been isolated for years who are at risk of suffering from loneliness. It also includes a lot of people who were well connected before the pandemic. Another lockdown Christmas would have some fairly dire mental - and physical - health effects for a whole lot of people, and some of them would likely end up in hospital beds because of it.

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julieca · 28/11/2021 20:05

@GoldenOmber life is back to normal. So people who are isolated and lonely now (the two are not the same), are likely to be the same after the pandemic.
A lockdown would still allow people to link up with people who live alone I assume.

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Londoncallingme · 28/11/2021 20:06

House parties, large gatherings and reckless merriment on the banned list I’m guessing.

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Bignanny30 · 28/11/2021 20:20

How can you cancel Christmas ? Doesn’t it come on 25th December every year. Wasn’t it the day some one important was born!? 🤷‍♀️

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GoldenOmber · 28/11/2021 20:21

life is back to normal.

Yours might be, other people’s are or. I have colleagues in my current job who’ve been WFH alone in tiny flats since March 2020. There are day centres still not fully reopen, people in care homes with limited visiting, people who haven’t been able to see overseas family since the start of the pandemic.

A lockdown would still allow people to link up with people who live alone I assume.

‘You are technically allowed to bubble with one household, travel restrictions permitting’ isn’t enough to stop a lot of people getting desperately lonely, as we can see from the other lockdowns where that was allowed.

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julieca · 28/11/2021 20:28

@GoldenOmber working from home has changed. There will be more doing that after the pandemic ends.

Yes visiting family abroad is limited, but surely no one relies on that for their weekly social contact anyway?

I didn't know not all-day centres are not open. Where I live they have all been pretty much closed down over the last few years. There are no national restrictions in care homes. Just looked and ones round here range from no limits to numbers visiting, to limiting the numbers visiting at any one time. But all are open to visitors.

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GoldenOmber · 28/11/2021 20:37

working from home has changed. There will be more doing that after the pandemic ends.

Sure, but that’s not really relevant to whether life is ‘back to normal’ for people who never signed up to it and feel very lonely doing it, is it?

You seem to be trying very hard to push the idea that nobody would really suffer from loneliness or social isolation if there was another lockdown over Christmas. But they would, obviously they would. They did last time and would again. And that would have its own health impacts.

I get why you might think another lockdown would be worth the cost - I might too depending on the circumstance. I don’t get why you’d pretend that cost wasn’t really there because everyone’s fine really and lonely people would be lonely anyway, nothing to see here, move along.

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Sparklingbrook · 28/11/2021 20:39

@Bignanny30

How can you cancel Christmas ? Doesn’t it come on 25th December every year. Wasn’t it the day some one important was born!? 🤷‍♀️

I got shouted at for saying similar on another thread...
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Overnightoats1 · 28/11/2021 21:23

Spare a thought for all those who live in the UK from Southern Africa whose Christmas really has been cancelled ... again.. it's only been a month since they were allowed to see their family and that has been taken away again... it's pretty horrendous

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julieca · 28/11/2021 21:48

@GoldenOmber I am saying things are back to normal now. Not talking about another lockdown.
Another lockdown will leave some temporarily more isolatéd. I suspect we wont have another proper lockdown though. Just mitigations.

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starlight13 · 29/11/2021 00:14

If any restrictions are announced they'd better be prepared to police it well as I can't imagine anyone will abide or give a toss this year.

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ThousandsOfTulips · 29/11/2021 03:02

@Bignanny30

How can you cancel Christmas ? Doesn’t it come on 25th December every year. Wasn’t it the day some one important was born!? 🤷‍♀️

No. That so-called "important" person was actually most likely born sometime in March/ April according to historians. And many people don't feel that person is particularly important anyway.

In the UK and across much of Europe there has always been a midwinter festival where family and friends come together to feast and celebrate as it helps people to survive the dark and miserable winter months. Christianity attempting to impose one of its major festivals over the top of this doesn't eradicate the need for this, or the joy of it, for those who don't believe in sky fairies, despite the name of the celebration having been changed.

HTH.
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ThousandsOfTulips · 29/11/2021 03:04

@Overnightoats1

Spare a thought for all those who live in the UK from Southern Africa whose Christmas really has been cancelled ... again.. it's only been a month since they were allowed to see their family and that has been taken away again... it's pretty horrendous

That's awful. Sad So many people have been separated from their families abroad in these last couple of years - including much of my own family - and I agree with you this is usually glossed over by those who don't experience it.
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chaosmaker · 29/11/2021 09:34

@VaguelyInteresting

Well, someone needs to stop *@BlowBadness* reading dystopian fiction, stat. And I say that as someone who plays a running game of “1984” and “children of men” bingo with govt pronouncements (across the board. Not just re: covid).

It’s important to remember that viruses can mutate themselves into less deadly and less effective strains (seemingly what we’re seeing in Japan) and also that EVEN when there are long running pandemics/ epidemics, even when these are incredibly deadly or injurious (Spanish flu, smallpox, polio) - society eventually just lives with it, with very little disruption to the social order once the worst is over. They are ruptures, but ruptures we tend to be seemingly inclined as a society to knit back together as closely as possible to how things were before. (However shit that might have been!)

Things that DO change legally/at a high political level/ socially tend to be directly linked to healthcare, disease control, etc.

I actually think there have been some enormous missed opportunities around covid to create new ways of living and thinking that could have left us in a far better place post-covid than we were before- for example, the issues with transmission in schools would have been a BRILLIANT opportunity to move more schools towards more outdoor based learning (forest school style), as ventilation is key- instead it was “ah open a window and hope for the best”.

We saw an enormous benefit to the planet very quickly when manufacturing shut down briefly- did this suggest that there might be environmental merit in global “holidays” once every year or six months, when all non essential manufacturing stopped? Like massive “rest periods” for the planet? (Taking the Mexico City model where you can only drive your car on certain days)?

Other things like UBI, shorter work weeks, use of masks in winter to reduce all viral transmission, reduction of reliance on plane travel and renewal of interest in train travel...

All of these things - some very small and practical, others insanely blue sky- could be interesting to explore. Maybe we still will. Maybe that’s what will come from this Omicron variant- maybe it will be really transmissible, and necessitate lockdowns - a second chance to learn the lessons from 2020? Or maybe it will fizzle or burn itself out?

None of us knows- but I can guarantee that at some point - probably soon- we will socially come to an unconscious agreement to just “live with it”- whatever that means for death tolls/ long term effects- rightly or wrongly. It’s what we’ve done for millennia, from the plague to the Spanish flu.

Totally agree. I don't understand the 'get back to normal' lot. So much better to have a normal that is transformational and seeks to make equality in all things a reality. I guess people really are scared of change as seen for this gov getting voted in for no reason rather than a productive coalition of the best thinkers from parties.
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MLMshouldbeillegal · 29/11/2021 09:39

[quote julieca]@GoldenOmber I am saying things are back to normal now. Not talking about another lockdown.
Another lockdown will leave some temporarily more isolatéd. I suspect we wont have another proper lockdown though. Just mitigations.[/quote]
Hahahahahha, good one.

In Scotland : work from home if you can. Masks on kids all day in secondary schools including in classrooms, distance learning at all universities, doctors/dentists with doors locked and limiting face to face, masks in shops, restaurants, hospitality, vaccine passports for larger events - and that's just off the top of my head.

Some people do really talk nonsense.

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Insanelysilver · 29/11/2021 10:00

I think as awful as it is, if this new variant surges and it’s a real danger to the population, there might be some necessary restrictions.
Yes we are all sick of it but it is what it is.
I think restrictions might be, on a certain number of visitors and maybe on restricting how far we can travel etc.
Hopefully if we all have our jabs and wear masks and try to avoid super spreading events, we might be ok.

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tiktokniknok · 29/11/2021 10:02

Does anyone think they will reinstate wfh if you can?

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Exhausteddog · 29/11/2021 10:05

Does anyone think they will reinstate wfh if you can?

I thought they already had? Confused
Tbh that is fairly fluffy and open to interpretation from individual employers. Its not as defined as say, wear masks in shops.

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MarchingOnTogether · 29/11/2021 10:28

Christmas 2019 we had all our family together, my partner and kids, my sister and neice and my dad and step mum, it was brilliant.
My dad was planning to move away so we really pushed the boat out to make it a good one.
2 weeks later he was gone, he picked up a flu like virus over new year and died within days, it was so unexpected.
After covid hit one thing I was so grateful for was that we got to spend that time.with him, we had a great Christmas and we were able to be with him in the hospital for his last days...
Last year we had restrictions in place for a good reason and whilst for most it was a price worth paying, there will be some who missed out on a last Christmas or a final meeting with a loved one...
Now we have vaccines, we have testing, we are so much better prepared. We can't be expected not to hug or kiss our loved ones and have proper family get together over Christmas. Be sensible, use lateral flow tests before mixing with people & get a pcr if you have symptoms. Other than that, get on with it and enjoy Christmas

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Riv · 29/11/2021 10:37

Not all of us are fortunate enough to have family that live locally, so if travel is in anyway restricted, we won't see them.
Both my DC are single and live alone in very small flats at the opposite side of the country to me .I saw them for Christmas 2019. Because of restrictions and our jobs I have seen each of them for one single overnight stay and once for a few hours outside since then. I have no other family. We all spent Christmas 2020 totally alone in our respective homes. If restrictions are brought in, we will all spend Christmas 2021 alone in our respective homes again. Friends will see their local family as usual, or travel a couple of hours to meet family outside. I would have to do a minimum 7 hour each way drive without a break for that. I am just not physically able to drive 14 hours in one day, even for an hour or two with my family. They don't have cars.
That's what cancelling Christmas means for me, and for many others like me. Sitting alone again with the telly and maybe a cook-chill chicken dinner. Not worth making the effort really.

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generalh · 29/11/2021 12:02

My son has been on a 9 month deployment ans I how to travel to Portsmouth on 10th Decand then to Cambridge to see him just after Christmas. That is all I want.

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VikingOnTheFridge · 29/11/2021 12:10

@Riv

Not all of us are fortunate enough to have family that live locally, so if travel is in anyway restricted, we won't see them.
Both my DC are single and live alone in very small flats at the opposite side of the country to me .I saw them for Christmas 2019. Because of restrictions and our jobs I have seen each of them for one single overnight stay and once for a few hours outside since then. I have no other family. We all spent Christmas 2020 totally alone in our respective homes. If restrictions are brought in, we will all spend Christmas 2021 alone in our respective homes again. Friends will see their local family as usual, or travel a couple of hours to meet family outside. I would have to do a minimum 7 hour each way drive without a break for that. I am just not physically able to drive 14 hours in one day, even for an hour or two with my family. They don't have cars.
That's what cancelling Christmas means for me, and for many others like me. Sitting alone again with the telly and maybe a cook-chill chicken dinner. Not worth making the effort really.

Flowers
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