Stop comparing Covid with Smallpox

[Lilifer]

Smallpox had a fatality rate of 30% of the population FFS! The estimated worldwide covid Infection fatality rate is put at 0.15% in
this article pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33768536/ published by John Iaonnidis from Stanford university.

Therefore trying to use Smallpox vaccination mandate as an argument for Covid vaccination mandate just makes you look ignorant of historical fact. Find a better argument for mandating covid vaccine rather than comparing it to a disease that was wiping out nearly a third of the population 😐

I just don’t get why you wouldn’t have the vaccine.

I know two people total that refuse to get it

1. an elderly lady with COPD that believes it’s agains her human rights. She thinks it’s the NWO trying to control population. She would rather never see her grandkids again (live in a different country) than get the jab.

2. a 40 year old that has had many health conditions over the years. To be honest most of them are made up. She’s constantly got a new one. She is very obese and lives entirely alone. She won’t have it because she believes she will have a reaction to it.

Based on the above, this is not a group anyone would like to find themselves in. These people are selfish and quite honestly, scientifically inaccurate.

@Imposter1

I just don’t get why you wouldn’t have the vaccine.

I know two people total that refuse to get it

1. an elderly lady with COPD that believes it’s agains her human rights. She thinks it’s the NWO trying to control population. She would rather never see her grandkids again (live in a different country) than get the jab.

2. a 40 year old that has had many health conditions over the years. To be honest most of them are made up. She’s constantly got a new one. She is very obese and lives entirely alone. She won’t have it because she believes she will have a reaction to it.

Based on the above, this is not a group anyone would like to find themselves in. These people are selfish and quite honestly, scientifically inaccurate.

Well yes, but people have a right to be stupid. People do all sorts of stupid things and take all sorts of stupid risks that I cannot comprehend but people don't all think the same, some have weird mad stupid crazy notions and live their lives that way and that's humanity.

And before anyone says well that old lady and the obese 40year old woman is endangering others the biggest risk they pose is to themselves. 🤷‍♀️

@CrunchyCarrot

We can't compare SARS-COV-2 to other viruses that closely. Not even to the original SARS! It certainly isn't like flu, either. Most people shouting don't know the first thing about viruses.

We're all experts now though! People don't need to study or get degrees anymore you know, intuitive scientists from birth, all of us.

I am finding it hard to understand what you mean in your post. In what way am I wrong?

The point of my post was that people are saying that covid vax should be mandatory because the small pox vax was manadatory (it no longer is because the disease was eradicated )

And I believe this is not a good argument for the mandating of covid vax because Covid and Small pox are completely incomparable in terms of % death impact on world population.

I did not mention measles in my OP because measles vaccine is not and never has been mandatory so I am not sure why you have brought measles in to a discussion on the mandating of a covid vaccine here in uk.

⬆️⬆️ that is in response to CheeseMmmm

I would disagree completely. The elderly lady, through stupidity ARE endangering me and you and everyone else.

If the old lady gets it, I’m almost certain she will not do well. She has a chronic lung condition, Is elderly and she also is not vaccinated.

She would end up in hospital. There are only so many beds. There are limited ventilators. She is deliberately taking up a bed due to her stupidity. Perhaps that bed might have gone to a cancer patient that was double vax but still needed hospital support. It seems unfair that these people are putting pressure on the NHS in such difficult times. And why??? “Because bill gates put a chip in the vaccine”. The whole reasoning is infuriating!

And before anyone questions, I feel the same about these dickheads on shoes like “ambulance” that take an ambulance away from someone because they were dumb enough to get in a drunken fight. What are you taking resources from? That’s what you need to think.

I don’t blame the government either. Even the best NHS couldn’t cope if all the conspiracy, vax refugees got sick. It really does feel like the straw that broke the camels back. We have flu, a backlog, winter illnesses… and now the anti vax folk take up beds too.

Typo: vax REFUSERS

Good try OP but I don't think logic or fact get very far in this world any more!
My particular bugbear is when an unvaxxed person is asked 'what so I suppose you didn't get the polio vaccine then?' as if some 3 year old was going to say 'now mother, I haven't yet looked into the safety data on the polio vaccine so I think I'll pass for the moment'!

[quote Postdatedpandemic]This is a very informative article @ancientgran, does it ring true for the region you lived in?
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK545991[/quote]
I was in a city with bad outbreaks, it looks like I had it in the 2nd year it was used here and it was certainly something that seemed an issue, obviously I was a child so wouldn't have known all the ins and outs.

I got it at school, we all had to take shirts/blouses off and line up, I do remember it seemed to be the "tough" boys who were doing all the crying but maybe they just made more of an impression. I don't know how consent was dealt with but I was at a Catholic school run by nuns and if they said you were having it I think it was a given that that was what was happening.

I was scared of polio, I saw local kids with calipers and crutches, it wasn't some remote thing. Parents were scared to let us go swimming. It was the iron lungs that scared me. You would see pieces on the news about some brave child lying trapped in one of them, dying didn't worry me but living in one of those terrified me.

I assume the adult take up wasn't that high as they did the going out into the community to get people to take it. I was at a county show and I remember my aunt and uncle being stopped and asked if they'd had it and them agreeing to having it. I was a bit surprised they got a sugar lump and I got an injection but things move on don't they.

I remember the queues for smallpox vaccinations that they refer to. We had a GP in the road where I lived and the queue would snake down the road till late at night. The poor doctor, it was a one man surgery and he must have been working a 16 hour day. He did the vaccinations in the evenings after surgery. There seemed to be quite alot of outbreaks where I lived, one thing was when the muslims did the Haj, every year people would wait to see if there was a new outbreak. I suppose the Haj means lots of people in close contact and coming from all corners of the earth. There was no anti muslim feeling back then that I remember, there was no blaming them like with the "China virus" but I lived in an area with a very high immigrant population (my family included) so it might have been different elsewhere.

I do have a vague memory of concerns about how the vaccine was tested, I think it was alleged they were tested on children in orphanages or other institutions but I might have got that mixed up with something else.

I suppose we were a lucky generation being born in the early days of the NHS and having the benefit of vaccines for diptheria, whooping cough and then polio. We just suffered the joys of measles, mumps and German measles.

Thanks for the link, it was interesting.

@Lilifer

I am finding it hard to understand what you mean in your post. In what way am I wrong?

The point of my post was that people are saying that covid vax should be mandatory because the small pox vax was manadatory (it no longer is because the disease was eradicated )

And I believe this is not a good argument for the mandating of covid vax because Covid and Small pox are completely incomparable in terms of % death impact on world population.

I did not mention measles in my OP because measles vaccine is not and never has been mandatory so I am not sure why you have brought measles in to a discussion on the mandating of a covid vaccine here in uk.

Don't they just mean it isn't unprecedented?

OP I have seen a lot of these posts on Facebook.

They are just as bad as the conspiracy posts IMO

I have had both my vaccines and I am getting sick of the hatred I am seeing on SM and on here towards the 'antivaxxers'.

Anti vaxxers imply that these people refuse any kind of vaccines and for the vast vast majority they do have them - just cautious about this one and with good reason as its very new.

I had my vaccines as I come in direct contact with pregnant women. If I didn't I probably wouldn't have had it in all honesty.

Please that are cautious about this vaccine are not 'thick' they are more than capable to read studies and data and make an informed decision.

What is thick though is people saying covid is like small pox. Because honestly it isn't. 3/10 people died with small pox.

If small pox were to erupt again - I can assure you that lines and lines of people would be battling for the small pox vaccine.

Over 98% of people can deal with covid with over the counter medication.

Yes people have died but so have so many other people with ailments that could have been avoided - like the rapid onset of dementia rates that were brought on by the care home isolations causing the elderly to die prematurely.

I think public interest is starting to get bored with it all now

@MrsMargaretBeaufort

OP I have seen a lot of these posts on Facebook.

They are just as bad as the conspiracy posts IMO

I have had both my vaccines and I am getting sick of the hatred I am seeing on SM and on here towards the 'antivaxxers'.

Anti vaxxers imply that these people refuse any kind of vaccines and for the vast vast majority they do have them - just cautious about this one and with good reason as its very new.

I had my vaccines as I come in direct contact with pregnant women. If I didn't I probably wouldn't have had it in all honesty.

Please that are cautious about this vaccine are not 'thick' they are more than capable to read studies and data and make an informed decision.

What is thick though is people saying covid is like small pox. Because honestly it isn't. 3/10 people died with small pox.

If small pox were to erupt again - I can assure you that lines and lines of people would be battling for the small pox vaccine.

Over 98% of people can deal with covid with over the counter medication.

Yes people have died but so have so many other people with ailments that could have been avoided - like the rapid onset of dementia rates that were brought on by the care home isolations causing the elderly to die prematurely.

I think public interest is starting to get bored with it all now

I couldn't agree more mrsmargaret 😊

Ancientgran yes I guess they do but then they're usually going on to say well look we had a mandatory vaccine back in the day (ie smallpox) therefore not unprecedented and therefore justifiable now for covid. That's generally the path of their argument. And i don't accept that because it's not comparing like for like. Clearly there is a precedent, but precedent alone does not justify mandating this vaccine, in my opinion anyway,

@Ecina

Good try OP but I don't think logic or fact get very far in this world any more! My particular bugbear is when an unvaxxed person is asked 'what so I suppose you didn't get the polio vaccine then?' as if some 3 year old was going to say 'now mother, I haven't yet looked into the safety data on the polio vaccine so I think I'll pass for the moment'!

Yes exactly. Or the way people assume because someone does not want to take this vaccine that they have never taken any vaccine. The very few people I know who are hesitant to take this vaccine have had all their other vaccines and have had their kids take all the childhood vaccines. How can they be labelled anti vax when they are just not taking one particular vaccine? 🤷‍♀️

@Imposter1

I would disagree completely. The elderly lady, through stupidity ARE endangering me and you and everyone else.

If the old lady gets it, I’m almost certain she will not do well. She has a chronic lung condition, Is elderly and she also is not vaccinated.

She would end up in hospital. There are only so many beds. There are limited ventilators. She is deliberately taking up a bed due to her stupidity. Perhaps that bed might have gone to a cancer patient that was double vax but still needed hospital support. It seems unfair that these people are putting pressure on the NHS in such difficult times. And why??? “Because bill gates put a chip in the vaccine”. The whole reasoning is infuriating!

And before anyone questions, I feel the same about these dickheads on shoes like “ambulance” that take an ambulance away from someone because they were dumb enough to get in a drunken fight. What are you taking resources from? That’s what you need to think.

I don’t blame the government either. Even the best NHS couldn’t cope if all the conspiracy, vax refugees got sick. It really does feel like the straw that broke the camels back. We have flu, a backlog, winter illnesses… and now the anti vax folk take up beds too.

Well if you are obese, diabetic or immuno compromised then yes she could pose a danger to you. But then so could a vaccinated person so there's that.

And covid could well kill her. But assuming she is still mentally well enough to make her own decisions and not beset by dementia or Alzheimer's then that's her choice to make. A stupid choice yes, but still hers to make

And covid could well kill her. But assuming she is still mentally well enough to make her own decisions and not beset by dementia or Alzheimer's then that's her choice to make. A stupid choice yes, but still hers to make

You know, older people don't necessarily always put the same weight on life extending medical things. I don't think that's probably what is going on with the person described, but it's not that uncommon. Some prefer very minimal interventions because they know that if they don't die of something else they will almost certainly die of cancer, stroke, or heart failure, all of which are not nice and often lengthy.

@LobsterNapkin

And covid could well kill her. But assuming she is still mentally well enough to make her own decisions and not beset by dementia or Alzheimer's then that's her choice to make. A stupid choice yes, but still hers to make

You know, older people don't necessarily always put the same weight on life extending medical things. I don't think that's probably what is going on with the person described, but it's not that uncommon. Some prefer very minimal interventions because they know that if they don't die of something else they will almost certainly die of cancer, stroke, or heart failure, all of which are not nice and often lengthy.

That is true lobster - my mother has had her vaccine and boosters at 82, but says she will live her life as fully as possible and will take risks to see and get hugs from her grandkids and adult children because to her it's worth it, she feels her life would not be worth living anyway if she was to seal herself off from human physical touch and affection.