Are many people getting covid who've had recent boosters?

[greystripedpajamas]

Just curious really - not heard much about their effect on numbers yet.

I had my booster toward the beginning of October and ds has got covid in the house now. Hoping it'll reduce my chances of catching it!

@JassyRadlett

I don't think there's really been much research on the odds of testing positive after exposure when fully vaccinated. The focus is only on symptomatic illness.

REACT and ONS work on population samples and detectable infection, rather than symptomatic illness, and give us an excellent time series. ONS findings on boosters align fairly closely to the trial data.

What are the odds of having a positive test after a booster?

I'm a little bit over it all if I'm honest. Had covid last Christmas - I'm CEV. My dad died just after Christmas with it. I was then vaccinated Jan and April. Had had my booster 8 weeks ago.

I have been 100% worse with all of the vaccine than I was with having Covid. 3 day headaches/ sleeping for 48 hours etc. My booster left me unable to walk for two days - complete loss of muscle tone in my right leg.

Honestly, I've taken the vaccine no problem, tried to do the right thing but with Covid I only lost my taste and smell.

What are the odds of having a positive test after a booster?

I shared the ONS graph earlier in the thread. Their findings are freely available.

I’ve been pretty unlucky…. But someone always will be

@piscis What do you mean it doesn’t increase efficacy? That’s literally the whole point of the booster. The links are everywhere, it’s the whole basis of why it is being offered. I also said nearly 100%, not 100% - I believe it was 95-96%

@dabbydeedoo This used to be my understanding but a virologist explained that it does actually stop you developing disease in the first place, hence no positive test either.

[quote Whathefisgoingon]@dabbydeedoo This used to be my understanding but a virologist explained that it does actually stop you developing disease in the first place, hence no positive test either.[/quote]
But the novel coronavirus and covid-19 disease are two separate things, surely? You could test positive because the virus is in your nose/throat but you then fight it off quickly before developing into symptoms (the disease). That's what I thought anyway.

I think it's silly that the media use 'covid' as if it's the virus itself. You can't catch covid. You can catch the coronavirus that develops into covid, just like you could catch flu that turned into pneumonia.

This is why I think testing is starting to be a bit pointless. The novel coronavirus, like any coronavirus, will circulate indefinitely. Some people will be susceptible to developing severe covid from it, just like people were always susceptible to developing pneumonia from a cold or flu. We've developed vaccines and boosters to lower the chances of that happening. At some point, we're going to have to realise that if someone is sick, it might be covid, might be flu, whatever it is, they should stay at home and not infect others, but this thing of searching the virus out and quarantining anyone who tests positive is going to cause more problems than it solves. This will be what 'living with covid' looks like.

Interesting, they test asymptomatic people far less on the continent and barely any EU countries were asking for tests to return after their citizens went abroad. They kept up precautions like masking to reduce the chance of a positive person spreading the virus, rather than obsessively testing the population constantly. This approach makes much more sense to me than our approach.

But the novel coronavirus and covid-19 disease are two separate things, surely? You could test positive because the virus is in your nose/throat but you then fight it off quickly before developing into symptoms (the disease). That's what I thought anyway.

Asymptomatic cases of Covid-19 are well documented. When we talk about cases/infections we’re almost always talking about PCR-diagnosed infections, whether symptomatic or not. That is - SARS-Cov-2 has been able to replicate in the body to a level where it meets the PCR diagnosis threshold.

In England, our case levels also include LFTs that don’t have an accompanying negative PCR.

That’s why the distinction between symptomatic infection and all infections is important when we talk about effectiveness.

Obviously the vaccines aren’t a forcefield that stop viral particles entering our bodies. They key is whether they stop an infection - and the main current measurement of infection is via PCR.

@JassyRadlett

But the novel coronavirus and covid-19 disease are two separate things, surely? You could test positive because the virus is in your nose/throat but you then fight it off quickly before developing into symptoms (the disease). That's what I thought anyway.

Asymptomatic cases of Covid-19 are well documented. When we talk about cases/infections we’re almost always talking about PCR-diagnosed infections, whether symptomatic or not. That is - SARS-Cov-2 has been able to replicate in the body to a level where it meets the PCR diagnosis threshold.

In England, our case levels also include LFTs that don’t have an accompanying negative PCR.

That’s why the distinction between symptomatic infection and all infections is important when we talk about effectiveness.

Obviously the vaccines aren’t a forcefield that stop viral particles entering our bodies. They key is whether they stop an infection - and the main current measurement of infection is via PCR.

I'm unclear then on what the likelihood is of getting a positive test at all after a booster. This is what's affecting things like travel plans - I'm afraid of getting a positive test and being stuck somewhere even though I'm not sick and am highly unlikely to transmit (I wear masks in all indoor settings and don't dine or drink indoors). Does the 94% effectiveness quoted mean that I only have a 6% chance of testing positive at all? Rather than 'symptomatic infection'?

You can't catch covid.

You catch a cold, though, or chicken pox, or measles. It’s a fairly common way of talking about how we get diseases (and it certainly isn’t a scientifically precise term!)

Sometimes the virus and the disease it causes have the same name (like flu - though we rarely say ‘I caught H1N1 Influenza-A’), sometimes they don’t (like varicella/chicken pox; pertussis/whooping cough; lots of viruses/a cold.

I disagree with you on testing - at this point, we don’t really know enough to dispense with it. Testing lets us know when to worry and when not (high case numbers that are almost all in teenagers and their parents, as recently? Probably fine. Case numbers in more vulnerable demographics shooting up? We know hospitalisations will follow, and at roughly what ratio, because we’ve been testing all this time.

Without testing, we wouldn’t have had as good an early sight of vaccine waning.

I agree we’ll dispense with testing over the next year or so. I don’t think we’re at a stable enough point yet, though.

I'm unclear then on what the likelihood is of getting a positive test at all after a booster. This is what's affecting things like travel plans - I'm afraid of getting a positive test and being stuck somewhere even though I'm not sick and am highly unlikely to transmit (I wear masks in all indoor settings and don't dine or drink indoors). Does the 94% effectiveness quoted mean that I only have a 6% chance of testing positive at all? Rather than 'symptomatic infection'?

In its trials, Pfizer reported against symptomatic infections.

The ONS does population screening, so that’s all infections.

In addition, there are other studies. A large study in Israel looking at third dose effectiveness looked at both documented and symptomatic infection. It was 88% for documented, and 91% for symptomatic. That’s compared with two doses of vaccine, not against the unvaccinated population.

There are obviously limitations with any of these studies but they are overall very good news. Boosters prevent the vast majority of infections in a diagnostic sense.

@JassyRadlett

You can't catch covid.

You catch a cold, though, or chicken pox, or measles. It’s a fairly common way of talking about how we get diseases (and it certainly isn’t a scientifically precise term!)

Sometimes the virus and the disease it causes have the same name (like flu - though we rarely say ‘I caught H1N1 Influenza-A’), sometimes they don’t (like varicella/chicken pox; pertussis/whooping cough; lots of viruses/a cold.

I disagree with you on testing - at this point, we don’t really know enough to dispense with it. Testing lets us know when to worry and when not (high case numbers that are almost all in teenagers and their parents, as recently? Probably fine. Case numbers in more vulnerable demographics shooting up? We know hospitalisations will follow, and at roughly what ratio, because we’ve been testing all this time.

Without testing, we wouldn’t have had as good an early sight of vaccine waning.

I agree we’ll dispense with testing over the next year or so. I don’t think we’re at a stable enough point yet, though.

True, but I think people do forget that the main reason the novel coronavirus is dangerous is that it's novel. It caused devastation in 2020 because nobody had ever had it before but in late 2021, we're in a very different place, with almost everyone in the country having some antibodies now.

I'm not saying we should dispense with testing immediately but I think it's definitely time to start considering winding it down, particularly for stuff like travel. There's no good reason whatsoever for things like day 2 tests to exist. I saw a woman on Twitter saying 'what if someone gets on a plane and is positive'. Well, so what if they are? We're having over 40K cases a day in the UK and have been for months. Hardly anyone is masking on public transport. Pubs and restaurants are rammed. I don't understand why Brenda is so afraid of a positive case on a plane from Tenerife when she's happy to go down to the pub for Sunday lunch or shopping at M&S.

@JassyRadlett

I'm unclear then on what the likelihood is of getting a positive test at all after a booster. This is what's affecting things like travel plans - I'm afraid of getting a positive test and being stuck somewhere even though I'm not sick and am highly unlikely to transmit (I wear masks in all indoor settings and don't dine or drink indoors). Does the 94% effectiveness quoted mean that I only have a 6% chance of testing positive at all? Rather than 'symptomatic infection'?

In its trials, Pfizer reported against symptomatic infections.

The ONS does population screening, so that’s all infections.

In addition, there are other studies. A large study in Israel looking at third dose effectiveness looked at both documented and symptomatic infection. It was 88% for documented, and 91% for symptomatic. That’s compared with two doses of vaccine, not against the unvaccinated population.

There are obviously limitations with any of these studies but they are overall very good news. Boosters prevent the vast majority of infections in a diagnostic sense.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the chances of even getting a positive test after a booster are absolutely tiny then? That is really good news!

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the chances of even getting a positive test after a booster are absolutely tiny then? That is really good news!

Well, not tiny when there’s lots of Covid about. But better protection than we’ve ever seen before. And it is amazing news

@JassyRadlett

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the chances of even getting a positive test after a booster are absolutely tiny then? That is really good news!

Well, not tiny when there’s lots of Covid about. But better protection than we’ve ever seen before. And it is amazing news

Surely it is though? Does it not mean the risk of testing positive after exposure is down to about 1-5 in a thousand? Or am I terrible at maths?

@Whathefisgoingon

I do not understand how on mumsnet alone there as lots of people who have supposedly caught covid after a booster. The boosters are meant to be almost 100% effective against symptomatic disease.

As with all vaccines there is a time lag whilst it reaches its full level of protection. It takes at least 2+ weeks.

Plus even then it's not 100% effective.

And the first people to have their boosters are those who are much more vulnerable due to age and health conditions, and we know already that a number in those groups will never get full efficiency from the vaccines due to their immune systems being compromised.

Surely it is though? Does it not mean the risk of testing positive after exposure is down to about 1-5 in a thousand? Or am I terrible at maths?

I’m honestly not sure what the chance-per-exposure is (I’m sure it’s out there somewhere, though it will be wildly variable!)

I've been boostered, flu jabbed, the lot and have been very unwell with covid. I dread to think how sick I'd have been without those 3 vaccinations.
Whole family all negative though so the vaccinations have definitely minimised transmission in my house.

My partner and I went away for the night and were extremely close all night - sitting next to and opposite each other at small tables in bars, shared a bed all night, kissing, sex etc. I’d had severe body aches for days but at that point had no idea that it was Covid. I woke up in the morning with a tickly throat and stuffy nose and tested positive the day after that. She didn’t catch it from me despite all the very close contact. She’d had her booster just over a week before we went away and we can only put it down to that. She did have some extremely mild symptoms for a few days - headache, slightly sore throat, tired. But she had 2 negative PCRs and a negative lateral flow every night for a week. We have assumed that the booster did it’s job and that the virus tried to take hold but couldn’t.

@Andoffwego

My partner and I went away for the night and were extremely close all night - sitting next to and opposite each other at small tables in bars, shared a bed all night, kissing, sex etc. I’d had severe body aches for days but at that point had no idea that it was Covid. I woke up in the morning with a tickly throat and stuffy nose and tested positive the day after that. She didn’t catch it from me despite all the very close contact. She’d had her booster just over a week before we went away and we can only put it down to that. She did have some extremely mild symptoms for a few days - headache, slightly sore throat, tired. But she had 2 negative PCRs and a negative lateral flow every night for a week. We have assumed that the booster did it’s job and that the virus tried to take hold but couldn’t.

That is comforting. It'll be 8-9 days after my booster tomorrow and I'm meant to be going out for dinner. It's an outdoor heated terrace but will obviously have to go through the inside of the restaurant to get to it, and go to the loo etc. Part of me is thinking, should I just wait an extra week for it to be fully effective, but I already stayed in last weekend because of it, and have spent the entire year isolating myself 1-2 weeks before important things (hospital appts, family wedding, holiday) and it feels like I'm literally wishing my life away doing it. I hate having to think like this.

I think the recent upsurge is easily explained. I am currently on day 8. Feel pretty awful but have managed to keep my oximeter 1 notch above the number that requires hospital admission. I was classified CEV so only became eligible for vaccine in the 22/10. No appointments available until 2/11. However - as mentioned, I am CEV and my chronic condition put me in hospital the day before my vax. (This will be common for the chronically sick in the winter) so had to rebook for the 16/11.... but by then my original vaccines efficacy had faded to the degree where I contracted Covid of a supposed (unvaccinated) friend who should have known better.

I am sure there are many out there who have caught Covid waiting for their booster to happen..

I've tested positive this week. Had booked my booster for this weekend. Would have been 7 months from 2nd jab (but wasn't allowed to book earlier). Guess the effectiveness of that 2nd jab had indeed worn off.

@yomellamoHelly

I've tested positive this week. Had booked my booster for this weekend. Would have been 7 months from 2nd jab (but wasn't allowed to book earlier). Guess the effectiveness of that 2nd jab had indeed worn off.

What was your original jab? I believe the AZ goes right down to 47% six months after the second jab.