Australia/New Zealand New Thread

[Kokeshi123]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

This is... really really disturbing, honestly.

I grew up admiring (and, let's be honest, envying) Australians because as a nation, they always came across as a down-to-earth, fearless lot who had a healthy skepticism of authority while also being basically very civic/community minded.

What's gone wrong?

it wouldn't be nearly so bloody offensive if she wasn't crowing about how fast NSW is being vaxxed--I guess that's possible when you have the most supply!

The rest of the country, literally, has quite a lot invested in things going well in NSW.

Laura Tingle, acing it again: "Berejiklian rides roughshod over Doherty plan"

www.afr.com/politics/federal/berejiklian-rides-roughshod-over-the-doherty-plan-20210909-p58q3j

This is Melbourne northern suburbs - where COVID is running rampant. And despite all the attention on Sydney, Melbourne has been in lockdown for several weeks and likely to remain so for weeks more.

NSW infects them over and over and over again while Glady gets extra vaccines

Can I just say, NSW doesn’t ‘infect’ anyone. The virus infects. It’s shit for everyone, the world over, and we’d do best as a society not to bring politics or nationalism or any other ‘ism’ into this global health crisis. No-one chose to be in this situation, not the people of NSW who are ‘infecting’ other states, not the people in developing countries who are dying in their millions, no-one.

There are absolutely questions to be answered, but a war of words against people who live in a certain street, state, or country, is never going to be the answer.

I didn't say the people of NSW are infecting other states, but Gladys' (lack of) policy absolutely is. Last year when Melbourne was a cesspit, we put a ring of steel around ourselves to protect regional VIC and the rest of the country and it worked. And we got pilloried for it for the economic effects all the while. To pretend it is "just the virus" with no political influence is specious.

@Blackbird2020

NSW infects them over and over and over again while Glady gets extra vaccines

Can I just say, NSW doesn’t ‘infect’ anyone. The virus infects. It’s shit for everyone, the world over, and we’d do best as a society not to bring politics or nationalism or any other ‘ism’ into this global health crisis. No-one chose to be in this situation, not the people of NSW who are ‘infecting’ other states, not the people in developing countries who are dying in their millions, no-one.

There are absolutely questions to be answered, but a war of words against people who live in a certain street, state, or country, is never going to be the answer.

Well said. 👍

The problem is not hesitancy. The problem has always been supply. Our Prime Minister did not do his job.

The problem is not hesitancy. The problem has always been supply. Our Prime Minister did not do his job.

Exactly. And then gaslit us about it.

@StartupRepair

The problem is not hesitancy. The problem has always been supply. Our Prime Minister did not do his job.

But there has been ample AZ supply for a very long time. Its OK just to blame Gladys, but that doesn't really solve the issue.

Multiple politicians are responsible for the unfair perception of AZ in Austrailia, which resulted in a serious delay in people getting vaccinated and I get the impression that you are comfortable with that?

PS I'm not saying Morrison did do his job. He should have got more vaccine supply earlier, but as an outsider looking in, the messaging surrounding AZ has been awful and its cost many lives. Questions need to be answered and heads need to roll, and the PM should be top of the list.

(Ps I have given up hoping that BJ may take responsibility in the UK but then that man seems Mr Teflon).

Is Astra Zenica banned in some European countries due to side effects? I have heard that used as a reason not to take it a number of times. Don't get me wrong I agree the messaging has been terrible and heads need to roll because it has had massive consequences but I also can't hold people down and force them to have jabs.

Is Astra Zenica banned in some European countries due to side effects

No, I don’t think so.

@thingsarelookingup

Is Astra Zenica banned in some European countries due to side effects? I have heard that used as a reason not to take it a number of times. Don't get me wrong I agree the messaging has been terrible and heads need to roll because it has had massive consequences but I also can't hold people down and force them to have jabs.

I think AZ has been treated differently in some countries than say Pfizer. I suspect that a lot of that is political and as a result of Brexit. I know that the medical regulators should not be political, but it's hard to properly evaluate the risks of a vaccine when it's a political football. Any death is very political.

There were decisions that need to be made and AZ was probably always better for an older age group, but when the messaging means that many of that age group chose not to get the vaccine, then you have a big problem.

The vaccine effort is amazing now, but there are still too many vulnerable unvaccinated because they are only eligible for AZ. A 15 year is not likely to need medical treatment, a 75 year old is.

Morrison at one point held a late night presser full of drama saying no-one under 50(?) Should take AZ. So he contributed to the confusion and terrible messaging. In our family, dh and I in our late 50s took the AZ as soon as we could. First dose April. DS 22 has had first dose of AZ and DD 19 was given Pfizer by our GP as she had a cancellation and we live across the road.

I’m on a forum right now in Sydney talking about schools going back and loads of educated people are talking about how they’re not prepared to take AZ and will hold out for Pfizer so the messaging was clearly a huge problem.
Personally I’ll be happy to have a booster of AZ next autumn and I’ve already had Pfizer.

I don't really know what was in it for the politicians to be so anti AZ? Certainly the reports of people being put off at point of vaccine or needing a special separate consultation etc seems odd from here when it looks like vulnerable groups still aren't highly jabbed.

Is Astra Zenica banned in some European countries due to side effects

Denmark don't use it. Don't know about others

@CallItLoneliness

I didn't say the people of NSW are infecting other states, but Gladys' (lack of) policy absolutely is. Last year when Melbourne was a cesspit, we put a ring of steel around ourselves to protect regional VIC and the rest of the country and it worked. And we got pilloried for it for the economic effects all the while. To pretend it is "just the virus" with no political influence is specious.

This. Gladys has fucked us over. Possibly the whole country.

I'm waiting for the bit where the VIC lockdown become untenable and Gladys and her supporter, ScoMo, AKA prime minister of Sydney, claim it as a win for their fucking incompetence and politically motivated unwillingness to act.

And they will.

Arsehole is too good a word for them. Arseholes are useful, I know, I have one.

I don't really know what was in it for the politicians to be so anti AZ?

It was designed to dampen demand - because supply was inadequate.

See also the faux concern about vaccine hesitancy - there is not much of that around (fussy boomers aside, but they hardly make up the bulk of the population). But lashing individuals for dilly dallying about getting a vaccine stops conversations about how they are not yet in an eligible group - and couldn't get an appointment if they were.

Two work colleagues in their 20s had Pfizer about two weeks ago. both had booked AZ but got the option to switch to pfizer when they arrived for the vaccine - there was a brief window, two or three days, where Vic did that for people under 40 who had already booked. It didn't last because demand for vaccine bookings was so huge.

Anyway - both got first doses late Aug. one has a second dose booked for early November, the other couldn't get an appointment before January.

Supply.

Dampening demand would make sense - although I thought Australia was producing it? (I am very aware I don't have full understanding!)

That seems really unfair to have such a long gap between jab 1 and 2. I booked mine here at the same time and they were very keen to get both jabs the correct distance apart.

I was under the impression from the media that the vaccine rollout was going really well, and at speed, but completely understand if people are not able to access vaccines. Must be so frustrating, especially when the premiers are repeatedly saying this is what is needed to exit lockdown/restrictions (which it is) , and yet people can't act on this. :(

It's just been a cluster-fracas from go to whoa.

In another example - the feds ran vaccination in aged care (because they run aged care). They used almost exclusively Pfizer, even though it's clearly in shorter supply than AZ - and AZ had been declared off limits for younger people due to the blood clotting thing.

Surely it would have made sense to use the vax we had 1m doses a week of and has no contraindications for age? And save the Pfizer for younger folk.

On top of that, the contract was to vax patients but not staff/workers - they were left to source their own jabs. Which, until very recently, were largely unavailable to people under 40. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Wow. Makes 0 sense not to jab aged care workers!

@thingsarelookingup

And of course it's ridiculous to ask a state with zero covid to open their borders as soon as they hit 80% and invite in covid. Clearly they will need to at some point but the timelines can be different when you are in very different circumstances.

Could not disagree with this more. Covid zero states should never have shut their borders to residents in the first place. Covid zero never justified shanty towns on borders and people locked out of their homes and unable to see dying relatives, and it certainly doesn’t justify them for more months on end.

The approach of WA in particular (with qld not far behind) has been absolutely disgusting, and mark mcgowan’s politicisation of covid to cover up his failing health care system, which is on the brink already without a single Covid patient, is shameful.

(And before anyone accuses me of being a LNP apologist I think scomo is equally incompetent and hideous in his pitting of Australians against each other.)

@Wakeupin2022 it's depressing, isn't it? Not helped by the exceptionalism around the construction industry in VIC. Any other industry that could be safely stopped that was the driving force behind 5% of active cases would be...I mean we've closed the rest of the state for a hell of a lot less. Dan Andrews should be more closely questioned by the press on this one, and as for Martin Foley saying the construction industry is open "as it should be"...the mind boggles.

On a slightly different note, I’ve been reading a fair bit recently about the easing of restrictions come the 70% and 80% benchmarks.

The press are saying that once those benchmarks have been reached retail, hospitality, travel, etc. will open up for those who are vaccinated. Does anyone know if that means the unvaccinated will be prohibited from restaurants etc? Or that they will be required to show proof of a negative test or previous infection before being allowed in?

A lot of countries that are vaccinated to similar levels went quickly from tests to enter restaurants to just tests to enter large public spaces (swimming pools etc), and are now moving to the mindset that vaccination is to protect yourself (especially given the high transmission of Delta amongst vaccinated people).

I wonder how quickly Australia will move through those steps, or if at all. Given how the zero-Covid mindset has become extremely entrenched in Australia, is it conceivable that those who choose not to be vaccinated will be forever punished?