The teacher who died just after Christmas.

[Breastfeedingworries]

Good morning all,

Not sure if if this was posted about at the time as I didn’t see the thread.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-family-of-teacher-who-died-with-coronavirus-say-school-staff-must-be-priority-for-vaccination-12195441

Why aren’t we vaccinating teachers? Is there a petition online?

Can we as a MN massive do something’s about this.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Retired over 65s, they dont NEED to leave their house. Plenty do though. Not all over 65s are retired. Not all have someone to do their shopping. Some might even have children in school.

Agree! My over 65 parents are caring for their octogenarian parents.

@JellyBabiesFan

Who would you propose is de-prioritised to facilitate vaccinating teachers as a group rather than as individuals in accordance with their specific risk

Retired over 65s, they dont NEED to leave their house. Teachers do in order to get education up and running again.

Lots of over 65's are catching covid by their carers, in hospitals, in care homes, etc. They're not going out for jollies, and plenty aren't going out at all. Hospitals and care homes are where covid is spreading most. They're insanely unsafe places, even now, with cramped unventilated waiting rooms, staff not changing PPE between patients etc.

I don't get the leftover vaccine thing. If there are no shows then why does it become an argument about whether to call police, teachers or NHS admin in? Why don't the next people on the list get called for it instead? In my mind, it's not leftover, it 'belongs' to the next person in line (who can get there in time, obviously. But there must be plenty who could). Have I missed something really obvious?

I think it would be very wrong to vaccinate healthy teachers ahead of people in priority groups. If I get offered one ahead of my mum who is in Group 6, I will at least ask if she can have it instead. Probably won't work but I couldn't not try. We've got to get vulnerable people vaccinated so we can have some hope of relaxing and getting back to normal.

I think it is because in general an 85yr old will require someone to pick them up, drive them over, drop them off etc. Plus at that stage my parents always needed about 3 days warning of a change of routine. A teacher in a local school might be able to drive themselves or walk over. Obviously some 85yr olds are perfectly capable of jumping in the car and driving over at short notice, but in general it is not as easy, plus they might need to ring ten different people rather than a school / police station etc. which has people all in one place/easily contacted.

I don't think we should prioritise teachers any more than other vulnerable groups. I just think we should make schools safer.

Reopening high schools the same way they were before will cause the same result. Yes teachers are at particular risk of catching Covid but the whole community is affected by that spread and it is the CEV who are most likely to die or suffer long term effects.

There was no need education to be as chaotic and disrupted as it has been. The government could have planned and controlled what happens in schools but they chose not to.

In my mind, it's not leftover, it 'belongs' to the next person in line (who can get there in time, obviously. But there must be plenty who could). Have I missed something really obvious?

Yes, you are. Logistics. By the time you’ve pissed about trying to contact all the “next in lines”, dithered about how they can get there and if they can, the vaccine is past it’s date.

This is why spares are being offered to specific groups like police, where one phone call will land the nearest 10 officers on the doorstep within 20 minutes.

There are experts planning all this. Mumsnet in all it’s wisdom does not have that level of expertise

That sort of makes sense bluezoo but one call to the warden of the sheltered housing complex my mum lives on would get 10 vulnerable people on the doorstep within 20 minutes too.

I know experts are planning it. But a while ago surgeries were calling vulnerable in for no shows. Since then there's been a massive amount of public pressure to vaccinate police, teachers etc. And now leftover vaccines are being offered to them. Maybe it is the only way to stop them going in the bin. But, given it's only happened after loads of petitions etc, I can't believe the public pressure hasn't had something to do with the decision and I'm not convinced vulnerable people couldn't be easily found to give the vaccines to.

Posted elsewhere as there are myriads of identical threads on here. As a teacher I would gratefully accept it but am expecting a whole load of negativity from the usual suspects who swarm to pile on abuse at any practical suggestion to get schools back.

one call to the warden of the sheltered housing complex my mum lives on would get 10 vulnerable people on the doorstep within 20 minutes too.

I bet it wouldn't. It'd take half an hour for all ten to get ready and on a minibus.

They don't have a minibus!! They drive. Or walk. They're in their late 60s and 70s, not on death's door. Lots of group 5-9s live fully or semi independent lives and could act more quickly than people who'd have to get out of work.

I can quite imagine that a better system for using leftover vaccines will come. But it's all very new at the moment and teething problems are inevitable. My local vaccine centre only opened four days ago, so they're learning all the time

My friend's husband is extremely vulnerable. She got a call literally ten minutes before the centre shut, from her GP who happened to be there, knew there were half a dozen vaccines left, and knew they could get there in five minutes. He also had their number to hand as they know each other (but only slightly) socially. She and her DH jumped in the car and he got his vaccination early. It's all pretty reactive at the moment, but it won't stay that way I don't think.
Yes, he got his vaccination because of a loose connection with the GP, so was very lucky. But I also bet that GP is now gathering together a list of patients who live near enough to be called at ten minutes notice.

@manicinsomniac

They don't have a minibus!! They drive. Or walk. They're in their late 60s and 70s, not on death's door. Lots of group 5-9s live fully or semi independent lives and could act more quickly than people who'd have to get out of work.

Except excess vaccines don't come to light until near closing time. So working makes no difference.

The people to get annoyed with are those who don't turn up for their appointments, so wasting their vaccine and their slot.

@manicinsomniac I think you need to be more realistic about timescales in your suggestion if sheltered housing being contacted at short notice.

For a start, how long do you think it would take just to contact those 10 or so residents? Then eco sun where going on and give them the directions on where to go and what to do when they get there.

And then take into account how long it would take to get to wherever they are to go.

Yes, that's true saraclara . Sure it will get better with time. I know there are no easy answers.

Eco sun should be “explain”!

For a start, how long do you think it would take just to contact those 10 or so residents?
Also who's going to decide which ten get the opportunity?

nicknacky Yes, fair enough. I was only thinking of one example where one phone call woukd reach the same number of people as phoning a police station. In reality, the doctors have the residents' own phone numbers anyway, probably not the warden's. But even if they phoned a police station, you've surely got time delay problems too - who needs it most, who can be spared from the station, who came into work in a car rather than on foot etc. It wouldn't be instant there either.

In an ideal world, it wouldn't happen anyway. For something nearly everyone wants, if you accept an appt, you should make bloody sure you get there! No shows should be exceptions for unforseen circs, not a regular and expected part of every session.

saraclara well, that question applies equally in a police station or school doesn't it?

@manicinsomniac It would be far far quicker to contact the police. It’s one phone call then a radio broadcast. And whoever is free could go.

Ok, fair enough, I'll take your word for that. I thought they'd need to assess need and speed.

@manicinsomniac But that’s the point. If there is doses that are getting thrown out anyway then it’s better they get put in the arm of anyone, regardless of need.

Agreed. But if there's 5 minutes to spare which could allow someone to alert the overweight, asthmatic 49 year old officer instead of the healthy 26 year old officer then I think they should use that time. If there isn't 5 minutes to spare then sure, I agree. I don't know how tight the time limit is.

Interesting. Just by comparison, without knowing if one strategy is better than another, here in Mexico schools will only open once the epidemic is totally under control, on a state by state basis. We have one state where schools are going to open and all the teachers are being vaccinated this weekend in preparation for it.

@manicinsomniac And that would depend on a few factors coming into play, like you say timescale being just one of them.

But if push comes to shove and timescales are tight then anyone is better than no one.