Do you think university libraries are essential?

[louderthan1]

Because the government seems to and so do university bosses.
I work in a uni library and at the moment we are open.

Students have to book a study space online, but once they're booked in they are free to browse shelves for books.
First day back yesterday and it was surprisingly busy.
There are strict social distancing regulations in place, they have to wear masks at all times etc etc but not all of them are complying.

I think students have had a really rough time this year and obviously aren't getting the full university experience, socially or academically. But that is the responsibility of university management and the government to address, not library staff on relatively low wages.

Most of the staff in my office use public transport so are putting themselves at additional risk in that way as well.

I just think it's so dangerous and irresponsible for us to be open, I don't see how it can be justified. During lockdown in March/April/May we were closed, it was hard but we managed. We provided extra online resources, purchased ebooks on request etc.

However I'm aware that I'm not a student or parent of a student who has been massively disadvantaged already, so I don't have a stake in it in that way.

What do you think?

No one is offering students extensions or a student furlough to pay their fees or cover their accommodation costs. Who knows what the next challenge that our country will be, we really need to ensure that we have got these young people coming through to fill these future roles.

On that score I'm even more worried by STEM students not being able to do lab work. But that's a whole other thread.

You are being very, very unreasonable to want to make students' lives and their uni experience more miserable than it already is

I really really don't. My job is to support students in any way I can.
I've delivered books to students who are self isolating and I'm part of a team of volunteers who regularly phone students to check in with them and see if they need anything, and just to have a chat.

Fwiw we have three cases of Covid in the department already.

I just wanted to canvas opinion because it's hard to see the wood for the trees sometimes, staff feel unsupported and unhappy.

I absolutely will blame university management for lack of clarity and leadership, and not providing proper support.

I can see an argument that anything that is not truly essential to the running of the country should be stopped, so for example you could say that all university courses should be put on hold for a term (not saying this is right btw) but aside from this, if you think a university library is a valuable and important function of the whole educational experience you can’t then use arguments relating to risk aversion to shut it down. Not if you think it’s okay for shop/health care workers to put themselves at risk, also for low wages.
I’m a school librarian and I’m supervising the key worker and vulnerable children and they can be pretty rubbish at mask wearing/distancing. We all just have to do the best we can in the position we find ourselves.

Yes they are essential services. If you want HE to run, then libraries need to be open. There is nothing wrong with booked slots, being able to browse for books and then sitting at a desk to study. My university have strict rules of use and everyone is adhering to them because the library is so precious to us!

Students are paying full fees for what is a very much diminished experience. Let's not pretend that online learning is anywhere near as good as the real thing. So to say that libraries should be shut too is very unreasonable.

If libraries are essential what are the uni students all being told not to return meant to do? My DD is likely to be at home for at least another month. Studying a research heavy subject, mentioned by a PP as one that library access is essential for.

Yes I do think they're essential - because many students lack study spaces at home (even those living in student accommodation - in one I had neighbours so spectacularly noisy that it was often hard to sleep, let alone write a dissertations. My neighbours were also students and the university did fuck all about it). Plus, psychologically, I worked a lot better at the library than at home.

Likewise, I graduated in 2014, so not that long ago, but a lot of materials weren't available in ebook format (or if they were, only a few students could access the ebook at once, meaning your chances of doing the required reading were much higher if you turned up to the library).

Students are still being charged £9250/year despite the fact that most of the facilities they're still paying for are completely closed with no real substitute - the students union, for instance, sports, BUCS, societies, volunteering opportunities, student ambassador work - those are the things that made my time at university worthwhile, beyond the slog of getting a degree certificate. Taking the library away from that too would be unjust and cruel.

Furthermore, especially for second and third years in house shares owned by private landlords, they're still being charged in full for accommodation that they're legally not allowed to access if they went home at Christmas, and they can't take up the part time jobs they were relying on to pay for them (bar, retail, barista...).

No I don't.

I completed an MD and have completed further study since and can count on one hand the number of times I have been to the Library.

I appreciate not all books are available in e format yet but then a click and collect service should suffice.

I think they are, though it can depend on the subject. Most journals are now available online, but books may not be, and the cost of some academic books can be staggering, certainly beyond most students. There are some subjects where you need to access older documents which haven't been digitised (do they still have microfiche?) And most uni libraries will have special collections and paper archives; you probably can put off researching some famous person's papers for 6 months, but as there's a good chance you'll be the only person in those papers, it's probably not high risk - I'd expect riskier areas to be around banks of study desks and where books for taught courses mostly are, and the checkout/info desks, and you can control access to staff desks to a large extent (depending partly on the layout of a particular library.) When I worked in academic libraries, quite a lot of work wasn't front of house where you'd have student access anyway.

Having said all that, I've been doing a level 5 academic course at work over the last 18 months, and all the journal articles and other reading material was digital, which I was a bit sad about, because I was looking forward to mooching round an academic library again.

@raspberryrippleicecream

If libraries are essential what are the uni students all being told not to return meant to do? My DD is likely to be at home for at least another month. Studying a research heavy subject, mentioned by a PP as one that library access is essential for.

I was about to suggest the SCONUL scheme for reciprocal access, but a quick Google finds that that's been suspended.

If I were her and could access university accommodation, I'd go back, citing a lack of appropriate study facilities at home.

My husband is a librarian in public libraries and I have every sympathy. However, I think for some courses they are essential. I think you need to be able to enforce the rules and restrict the library to some courses/topics only.

I used to work in a postgrad law library where rules such as silence were strictly enforced and we could kick people out and report to their tutor if they behaved badly. I think you need the tough approach to keep people safe.

Frankly, DH is having to keep his library open, with vulnerable staff having to mix and commute, for sometimes 3 book pickups a day. A waste of time.

@Almostslimjim

No I don't.

I completed an MD and have completed further study since and can count on one hand the number of times I have been to the Library.

I appreciate not all books are available in e format yet but then a click and collect service should suffice.

It's very subject dependent. Courses which have a lot of taught material will generally require less use of libraries.

I think uni libraries are essential, they certainly were for ds1

Although he bought what books he could some of the ones he needed were £80+ and he did a lot of reading for his dissertation

(Too much reading and not enough writing...apparently)

But i do understand that you feel unsupported

Apologies

Not feel unsupported, by the sounds of it you are unsupported

@raspberryrippleicecream

If libraries are essential what are the uni students all being told not to return meant to do? My DD is likely to be at home for at least another month. Studying a research heavy subject, mentioned by a PP as one that library access is essential for.

They'll have to catch up or the course will have to be restructured, or the marking will have to be adjusted.

Our son has been told not to go back. He needs specialist software which can't be downloaded onto his PC, so he needs the library to access the software. The course tutors have had to change the modules around so that the module needing the software will be done after Easter rather than before. They have already flagged up a shortage of computers as by doing it after Easter, they're clashing with different module that also needs the same computers.

I would consider them essential. I spent so much time studying in the library when I was at uni. I needed to actually browse through the books in various subjects (click and collect would have been tricky), use the scanners, printers, photocopiers, use the software available on the library computers that I couldn't afford to have on my own. I couldn't have completed my coursework and dissertation without that library.

@Almostslimjim

No I don't.

I completed an MD and have completed further study since and can count on one hand the number of times I have been to the Library.

I appreciate not all books are available in e format yet but then a click and collect service should suffice.

Click and collect doesn't work where there are only a limited number of books available. You can't click and collect if there's nothing left!

Also, not all online/e-books are unlimited either. Some are restricted to number of virtual copies available (presumably where the Uni has only bought a limited number of "virtual copies" rather than unlimited), so it's still "first come, first served" to get access to some online books.

We've had to buy quite a few books for our son, where all the physical AND virtual copies of them had been "loaned out" to other students.

I think we do definitely need to tighten up on rule compliance and cut the numbers that are allowed to be in the library building at any one time.
It's an old building with very poor ventilation.
There are clear one way systems marked out but I regularly see people stepping over or ducking under barriers.
We also ask people to wipe desks down before and after use (there's hand sanitizer and packs of wipes everywhere) but I rarely see people doing it.
We definitely need to be stricter and impose sanctions I think.

Universities have been designated as critical workers...and honestly, if we want students to continue studying then yes they are.

You can probably ask to be furloughed if you are in a vulnerable group etc. But if you are not - then am sorry but libraries are critical.

The reality is that Covid is particularly bad for certain groups but less serious for others - statistically speaking. I have worked in universities for over twenty years now - there has never been a year when i did not pick something up during freshers' week. Last year - I had to work through flu, pneumonia, eye infections, croup etc..........and all that before the pandemic - nobody would have allowed me to take time off. This is the first year that unis even halfheartedly care about their staff. Usually - the message is - you teach - you come in. The only people I know who have ever taken time off for sick leave are those who had strokes/heart attacks and cancer. So in a weird way - this year has been sooooooo much better than previous ones

Also I would never suggest libraries should close long term, just til the new strain is under control a bit more and the vaccine programme is up and running, and we've put better safety measures in place.

I think they are essential, but I don't think students need to be actively wandering around them. I am a university lecturer. Generally speaking, none of our students have really returned to campus. There will be some in very specific courses who will (think health care). But otherwise, everything is remote and we will have no face to face teaching at all the rest of this year. I think there is some provision to be made for students who may be struggling and need a place to study. Not everyone has internet access and a safe quiet space at home. But I think there have to be limits on it too. All of my students as far as I know are home and very few even moved into university accomodation this year. Our student union and cafes also seem to be open at the moment, and I struggle to see why that is really necessary. We are an urban campus with a supermarket or off licence on every corner, not an isolated setting, and it seems an unnecessary risk. But librarians are certainly essential and doing really important work right now. I just wonder how much of that work can be done remotely and minimise risk to library staff. I don't think many of my students use physical library space and resources, but we do rely a lot of technical support and research support.

I think they're essential, absolutely

but we are talking long term - normal library provision closed in March - effectively you would suggest they shut in total for almost a year

The vaccination regime will take a very long time............the new variant is no deadlier - it just has a higher transmission rate. Yes, if people are in certain categories of vulnerability then they should be able to request furlough but in practice - if we are expected to teach then yes libraries should be open.

Are you particularly scared for your health - if you are under 60 and no health conditions please dont be.......but if it's for others then honestly let public health deal with that

Yes. I have an (online) exam next week, I'll be going to the library to do the exam while OH (who has to take the day off work) does homeschooling with DS. There's no way I could do it at home.