Schools will shut, and who will be complaining then?

[StartingGrid]

The sheer amount of people stating "my kids still have to go to school, so why should I do x,y,z..." are so short-sighted... when this fake lockdown doesn't work because of the above, watch an early Xmas closure be rolled out.
A lot of them will be stuffed for childcare but aren't thinking of the consequences of their current actions. I'd eat my hat if the government hadn't initiated this knowing they could blame non-compliance for needing the additional measures down the line but didn't want to look like the bad guys denying education initially. What's the saying about "jam today"?

[NailsNeedDoing]

How can you be so certain that if the ‘fake lockdown’ doesn’t work it will be because people aren’t following the rules?

Couldn’t it just be that if it doesn’t work, then the rules weren’t tight enough? There are plenty of opportunities for the virus to spread within the rules, and because of that, I honestly can’t blame people for doing what they want to do anyway. Yes it’s breaking the rules, but does it really make any difference if two children that have been in a classroom all day together then have a play date afterwards? I can’t see that it does.

Either the virus is bad enough that schools have to close because the risk is too high, or the risk is minimal and it’s ok for us to all still go to work and school. The government can’t have it both ways.

[Meuniere]

@cologne4711, I see where you are coming from.
But I’ve also seen people with children at naice schools adhering to the letter to the locknown rules too.

Actually looking at said naice school, the number of cases are way below the number of cases from the not as nice school in the same town.

FWIW if we are talking about cases in school, where we are there seem to be a clear connexion between students catching the virus and them going to parties (yes the ones that have banned for a long time now)...
Make that what you want.

[pastandpresent]

"Yes it’s breaking the rules, but does it really make any difference if two children that have been in a classroom all day together then have a play date afterwards?"

But is it always limited to same children in the same class? What about siblings? It maybe true for you, but it may not be for many others, who have multiple children mixing with family with multiple children, all from different setting/year groups etc.

[EwwSprouts]

Children breaking the rules caught out, for light relief read the hashtags.
www.facebook.com/HumberbeatHULL/posts/2723307784664933

[Sockwomble]

"Online learning absolutely does work - it’s hard to do and in-person learning is preferable. But it’s a good enough substitute."

Online working absolutely doesn't work for all children. Those children are supposed to be able to remain in school through any lockdown but that didn't happen last time.

[RedskyAtnight]

Lockdown rule aside, I do think it's monumentally selfish (on the basis that schools have been allowed to stay open over so much else) to let your child mix with other people out of school at the moment. This doesn't affect just them - it has an impact on their whole class bubble/direct contacts etc. I can see there are going to be lots of angry parents around the country as it comes out that x tested positive as a direct consequence of breaking lockdown rules.

[Sockwomble]

There were 4 cases in the local secondary school recently. They are in the same year group but not in the same classes. They were socialising together out of school so on that basis the argument it is ok out of school because they mix with others in school, is wrong.

[Meuniere]

At my dcs school, when there is a case, they tell children who sat next to them/same classes blabla to self isolate. They also always tell anyone in their friendship group to self isolate too.

Because yes they might meet up outside school but they also usually meet up at school too, even when they are not in the same class. School can’t police things at break times and lunch time and the pupils are nit social distancing either. So to me it makes sense.

[ConiferGate]

Having money makes people even more entitled. Drivers of expensive cars genuinely think they have more right to the roads, and it translates into this too - well we're lawyers and accountants and intelligent and our kids go to naice schools so the virus won't get us if we break the rules

Woohooo! Top marks for lowering the tone of the conversation to classism, why not chuck in some sweeping ageist and racist generalisations whilst you’re at it.

Honestly, it’s always someone else isn’t it. The problem with this country (and many others in the West) is that it’s always someone else’s fault and always someone else’s responsibility. The first thing that people think about is themselves, what’s in it for me and what does it mean for me. Not, how does this benefit society directly and therefore me indirectly. That’s why Asia is managing is so well.

I’m unashamedly middle class, I have an expensive car, I’m in a profession and my kids go to naice schools. I follow the rules. If you want to blame anyone, blame Dominic Cummings and all the ministers who defended him.

[ConiferGate]

Actually looking at said naice school, the number of cases are way below the number of cases from the not as nice school in the same town

Absolutely the same here sadly.

[tappitytaptap]

@Qasd

Oh and I want schools open because I think educating the population is really important it provides our future doctors and scientists for example, any covid vaccine developed here will come down directly to our investment in education institutions notable at the moment two of our leading universities, Oxford and imperial.

It is actually pretty rare for a modern country to decide to work towards having a high skilled economy and not have a state education system (actually not having a state education system is a pretty unusual thing for most countries and state education actually pre dates the nhs as a state run service that was worth investing in). Shutting it down temporarily could be justified but longer term to me it’s the equivalent getting rid off the nhs and most people saying “cannot people just do their own medical care they are sooo lazy”

Ultimately of course the right to education didn’t make it into the un convention on the rights of the child due to them wanting to protect parents right to “have a bit if a break from their kids”. But the one thing this pandemic has really shown me is education for education sake is very under valued in this country..I honestly hadn’t realised!

@Qasd I agree, I’m shocked the number of posters shouting ‘close schools!’ when before there were lots of (the same?!) posters moaning about how their child’s education was being affected by a small thing (eg disruptive kid in class, thought teacher didn’t like them, weren’t being set appropriate work). Mine is only in reception but the half term he’s been there he has come on leaps and bounds because the teachers know how to teach! DH and I are highly educated but we do not have the skills or experience or education a teacher does to enable him to learn. I highly value him being at school for education’s sake!

[3littlewords]

@Pandamanium

not everyone who isn't a key worker is furloughed or wfh

The key worker list was so long though, I think people think it was all supermarkets etc only who were going to work. Some of my colleagues were still going in to work, all be it, the majority of people did WFH.

My DH is in the construction trade he isn't a key worker nor can he work from home, I have friends who were furloughed last time doing office jobs who haven't been furloughed this time and workplace remained open . Local factories that closed completely during the first lockdown are open as normal this time. I only know 1 person who has been furloughed ( works in a pub) so keeping schools open just for key workers just isn't feasible this time. Every job contributes to society in someway whether that be a direct service to the public or indirectly contributing tax and NI to the economy.

[MrMeeseekscando]

I live next to 2 schools.
There is zero social distancing going on.
bodes well doesn't it?

[RedskyAtnight]

Actually looking at said naice school, the number of cases are way below the number of cases from the not as nice school in the same town

My DC's school has 2 campuses. The number of cases at one campus are way below those at the other campus, despite the two campuses (by virtue of them being the same school) being the same level of "naice"ness.

Conclusion - one set of data doesn't prove anything. Except maybe that there's a lot of luck involved.

[Hopeful201]

It depends where you live, COVID cases average in our area. Schools seem to be doing fine. Our DC are doing so much better in school. The difference is vast. Full lockdown is not needed right now. It may be needed in the future-I hope not though!

[MotherOfUnicorns4]

I'm in the North in one of the areas with seriously high numbers. My DC is in secondary school and pupils have allocated places to sit in class. The problem is, they keep being moved about, so no one knows who has been sitting where. When a child gets a positive test, the class isn't sent home to isolate, only the children sat near them. Other local schools have had to shut whole year groups due to lack of staff or an increase in cases. I want the choice to keep my kids at home. As a family we've lost too many people this year and we can't mentally take any more deaths. IMO people should be allowed to keep their children off school if they can and not risk fines or backlash from others. Keep schools open and safe for those who need it.

[Meuniere]

red my point wasn’t to say that I had proven that been in a naice school reduces the number of cases.

My point was that not everyone whose children go to a naice school are entitled twats who don’t follow the rules. If it was, the rate of infection would be higher there than at the ‘less naice’ school whose parents (and pupils?) were said to be followers.

[ittakes2]

A lot of private schools shut mid December I think the gov will shut all schools mid Dec.
I also think the gov is using schools to start developing herd immunity.

[Deux]

I think it depends on where you are. I’m in the SE and our rates are low and falling; have always been low.

DCs at a school of 1200 and not a single confirmed case since schools reopened. Back in March though before lockdown, a flu like illness swept through the school with up to two thirds of pupils absent.

[WhoWants2Know]

Both of my children's schools have stayed open, but they certainly aren't getting the standard of education that they did last year.

There's only been one reported case in the secondary, but there have been loads of supply teachers and inconsistencies in setting and collecting homework so that no one knows what's happening. Fights break out at break times (sometimes several in one day) because teachers are distancing and can't get there to break it up in time.

My other child in year 6 has had supply teachers all year so far.

This is in an area that until recently had the lowest number of cases in the country. The schools are doing their best, but it's not going well.

I think whether schools stay open or closed, most of the children in this academic year will face significant disruption and we need to start now to find ways of mitigating it.

[Aragog]

@Trumpetpants

Does anyone know if teaching assistant who works full time in one class tests positive will class have to isolate please?

At ,y school yes usually, as the teaching assistants here work across the class, rather than being 1:1 with a child.

PHE decides whether a full year group, class, or smaller group need to Isla.the, after speaking to the HT.

We've had 11 staff (that I know of) test positive some have involved the tear group closing, some their class, some a handful of children and a couple of,adults, some no one else.

[Aragog]

Many schools aren’t doing ‘online teaching’ though. I think the evidence is there that it just doesn’t work for many schools for many reasons•

Do you mean live lessons, rather than online?

Schools in England have no choice. There are strict guidelines in p,ace from the government, as of 22 October, which state that schools must provide remote or home learning for any child or bubble which is isolating.

We provide lessons daily - a mix of types from pre recorded videos to worksheets to external links. We don't provide live lessons as it isn't appropriate for our school catchment in terms of age and background.

[CallmeAngelina]

Yes, I think there is a lot of confusion as to what "online" teaching actually means. It does not mean "live lessons," although may include some of that.

[Feellikefrighteningyeah]

I must point out something. DS attended school towards the end of the last lockdown. He should have gone throughout but was never asked. They had no teaching. They just sat in front of computers and did the online learning

[motherrunner]

My school has had to close to Key Stage 3 as we can’t physically open with the staff we have. This is the reality for schools in areas of high transmission.