Schools will shut, and who will be complaining then?

[StartingGrid]

The sheer amount of people stating "my kids still have to go to school, so why should I do x,y,z..." are so short-sighted... when this fake lockdown doesn't work because of the above, watch an early Xmas closure be rolled out.
A lot of them will be stuffed for childcare but aren't thinking of the consequences of their current actions. I'd eat my hat if the government hadn't initiated this knowing they could blame non-compliance for needing the additional measures down the line but didn't want to look like the bad guys denying education initially. What's the saying about "jam today"?

[WithoutATtrace]

The numbers used to put us back into Lockdown were wrong, SAGE purposely used worst case instead of actual figures. The schools will not be closing any sooner.

[ConiferGate]

@CatteStreet again that’s simply not true. Here is recent CDC study showing that children transmit the virus just as much as adults in households. Generalise this to schools and it’s very evident why rates are increasing so fast at younger ages, most notably the secondary age group.

[Silvershimmering]

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Not dad's! Dd's

I did wonder 🤣🤣

[Goatinthegarden]

@ConiferGate
Absolutely not true. There is no evidence to suggest it doesn’t work for many schools. There is plenty of evidence to say that schools didn’t do it properly. Online does not have to mean live classes. It means online delivery of resources (eg videos, tasks and activities) supported by close teacher - student contact. The evidence is that only 9% of people who reported difficulties with home schooling (not 9% of all families) cited technology as a key reason. Over 77% cited lack of motivation among students which Is very different and can in many cases be mitigated through good teaching.

Experience as a teacher was that many children just didn’t ‘turn up’ for online lessons. I had an infant class and trying to teach online was near impossible as many parents put them in front of the screen unsupervised. Pupils were playing with toys, wandering off, etc. The alternative was to set tasks, but they had to be supervised by parents and not every parent was able to do this. We got creative as a school with interactive classrooms, online teaching, fun videos, etc and delivered paper work packs too - a small percentage of families adored it, but it still missed the mark for most children.

I have a senior class this year and we’ve discussed what home learning might look like if it happens again, they told me last time that because no one made them get up, they would just stay in bed until 1pm.

We have had several after school meetings since we came back to put plans for home learning into place in case of another lockdown. We really are trying. There’s only so much we can do as educators. I really hope we don’t lockdown because I’d much rather be seeing my class every day.

[Remmy123]

Why do they need to close exactly? Deaths are low.

@StartingGrid if you are in London you will know that two main hospitals are NOT full or nearly fulll with COVID patients.

Closing schools effects the economy which Is screwed enough.

[ConiferGate]

@Goatinthegarden People are too wrapped up in “online learning” meaning live lessons. It’s ridiculous to expect infant school kids to be learning online (I have one, total waste of time). But online resources can work, no I didn’t love them, and no they weren’t as good as in school teaching, but to say there’s evidence that online learning doesn’t work is simply not true.

The whole what works / what doesn’t argument has been done to death and I don’t want to get into it now, but I’m just pointing out the the evidence does not suggest that online resources “don’t work”. They’re just not as good, that’s not in question. We do however have a huge amount of lessons learned and good practise to draw upon from last time which I’d hope someone has been analysing at a central level to mitigate some of the same mistakes. But then someone has to decide what’s more important, a rapidly escalating health crisis or less good education (for as short a period as possible). Not a decision I want to make.

[SquirmOfEels]

that two main hospitals are NOT full or nearly fulll with COVID patients

Given that there are about 20 major hospitals in London (not including the wider outskirts) that's not an exactly reassuring bit of info. Presumably the other 18 are considerably fuller, which would be concerning, because London is behind the NW (where hospitals have more Covid inpatients than they had during the first peak)

[Flowerblue]

‘Jam tomorrow and jam yesterday, but never jam today’ from the Mad Hatter’s tea party in Alice in Wonderland.
Online learning absolutely does work - it’s hard to do and in-person learning is preferable. But it’s a good enough substitute.

[ConiferGate]

@Remmy123 this is correct, many London hospitals have less than 10% of acute and general beds with Covid patients, compared to rates of 25-30% in parts of Liverpool, Yorkshire, Notts.

Problem is however that these reflect infection rates from 2-3 weeks ago. If Covid admissions were to double every two weeks in an area which has 10% now they’d be at 80% by Christmas. So we need to look at projected growth rates, not in current capacity.

[meditrina]

I can see that online leraning might not be suitable for the youngerst pupils.

But the issues with primary schools (especially the lower years) are not hugely relevant to secondary, where continuity of learning is really important (especially Year 10 and upwards).

Sutton Trust noted big differences in provision between private and state schools, and I expect there are lessons that can be learned from what made the difference

[Mistletroll]

They didn't give the tier system enough time to work. We were under our tiers what 2 weeks? Now they look stupid because what we all did in Oct is having a downward push on the numbers now.

Lockdown2 is pointless and they know it. They have screwed economic recovery for no reason. According to my manager not one person in our company (300) has had Coronavirus. Not one child in my DC's school (550) has had it either. I am not saying it is not in the community, or there are not areas in the UK that are suffering with this, but where I live there is no reason to shut us down and screw our local economy.

[Quartz2208]

Most decisions that have been made since day the summer has had the driving force of schools not shutting.
Keri Starmer has supported schools not shutting.
It’s the one thing all the devolved nations has followed in their measures as well.

For the Government to back track on this now would take a lot and the data/figures are nowhere near that level yet.

[PutThemInTheIronMaiden]

Schools will not shut.

[Oblomov20]

I don't want the schools to shut. Children should be in school. It's good for their MH.

I'm angry with idiots but obeying rules, like 4 year old with birthday party above.

[Barbie222]

I'm keen for schools to stay open but there are so many cases now in my school it's literally just winging it from day to day, not knowing which class you're going to teach or whether your EHCP children are going to have any support.

I have a feeling the results from Liverpool schools are going to be the way out for the government to go to rotas for secondary.

[Bumpinthenight]

Pubs and restaurants have been shut due to households mixing and lack of social distancing.

If the general attitude of 'my kid's sat next to her/him all day why can't they hang out after school/sleepover' or the 'I am surrounded my 1000 kids/workers all day' one it won't be long before tighter measures happen.

Lockdown is a warning. They've done it once, they can do it again...

Currently Christmas is being used as a carrot and still people aren't following guidelines. I don't think 4 weeks of a lockdown is going to have much affect on the transmission rates, I believe it should be a longer break to see a difference.

I don't think schools should be shut because it is the only place they should be seeing their friends and have that social time. Listening to the pupils at the school I am at, you wouldn't think there is a lockdown...

[DenimDrift]

This thread is also shocking

Why do families even enjoy ‘sleepovers’? I’ve always hated them!

[OhTheRoses]

I have enormous admiration for the majority of teachers who have voted to keep schools open. Thank you. You have done a great deal to raise the recognised integrity of your profession.

[Reborn2020]

Yes I agree with you to a point.

However, speaking for myself and I am sure lots of us, we are following the guidelines. Perhaps this is why guidelines have to be increased because some just won't follow.

[Reborn2020]

@OhTheRoses

I have enormous admiration for the majority of teachers who have voted to keep schools open. Thank you. You have done a great deal to raise the recognised integrity of your profession.

This

[SmigglesNoMore]

We went for a dog walk with the children to a nearby forrest (South East) and saw many groups of walkers where it was clear that they were 2-3 families. Some had teenage children and others were just people in the fifties-60s, I'd guess. Arguably it's not likely to catch Covid in fresh air but the sheer blatant rule breaking and entitled attitude of so many really annoyed me. Several middle aged couples were milling about on the car park chatting hanging out, chatting, quite like the teenagers I see at our secondary school. I was surprised at how many middle class people are too arrogant and special to stick to lockdown rules.

[Develogravi]

@PutThemInTheIronMaiden

Schools will not shut.

School closures are being discussed so I wouldn't be so sure.

[pastandpresent]

I don't understand the people who won't comply with the rules but wanting/needing school to be open. This lockdown may not be the best option, but if done properly, it should at least decrease the spread to the community.

[cologne4711]

I was surprised at how many middle class people are too arrogant and special to stick to lockdown rules

Having money makes people even more entitled. Drivers of expensive cars genuinely think they have more right to the roads, and it translates into this too - well we're lawyers and accountants and intelligent and our kids go to naice schools so the virus won't get us if we break the rules.

We've said all along that people don't care about broadcasting it either, photos on Facebook and posts on Strava saying "cycle ride with Sarah and Emma" and you know the person doesn't live with Sarah and Emma and neither are under 5. If you're going to break the rules don't make it so obvious!

[Pandamanium]

not everyone who isn't a key worker is furloughed or wfh

The key worker list was so long though, I think people think it was all supermarkets etc only who were going to work. Some of my colleagues were still going in to work, all be it, the majority of people did WFH.