Coronovirus IS transmitted in schools

[mosquitofeast]

And lots of teachers have died

I am just clarifying this, as I don't know how many times I have read on Mumsnet that this has never happened. I don't know where this misinformation is coming from, but its rubbish

It was transmitted several hundred times in my school (secondary)before lock down. Hundreds of children and dozens of staff were affected. Some have been seriously ill and have been left with long term health problems, such as low lung capacity and loss of hearing.

I am a teacher and I was infected at school. I did not use public transport, or go into any shops or other businesses for the whole of March, and I was living alone. The only time I was in any contact with anyone else was in school

A school near us (also secondary) had to close a week before school closures were announced, as so many teachers were infected.

Thankfully, no staff or student in our school died, although several students have lost parents, and many have lost grandparents. One of my sixthformers has withdrawn her university application as her mum has lost a lung and a leg and now can't run her home and care for her younger children on her own.

However, according to the union, around 200 school staff have dies to date, so we have just been lucky so far.

So please don't repost this fake news that "no one has ever caught covid in a school" - because |I have watched it happen in front of my eyes, and experienced it myself.

[GreyishDays]

@WombOfOnesOwn

200 teachers sounds like a lot!

But it isn't. In fact, teachers have been quite shielded.

Of course, there are 500,000 teachers in the UK, a nation of 60 million people. That means eight-tenths of a percent of the UK population is teachers.

In the UK so far, 45,000 people have died of COVID complications.

Eight-tenths of one percent of this figure would be about 400.

Teachers have died at HALF the rate of the UK population in general. Do you expect teachers should simply be regarded as golden, irreplaceable heroes that must be put on a pedestal and never regarded in the same way as the rest of the population?

It's WILDLY ridiculous for teachers to whine that they're somehow being imposed upon when a quick look at the numbers reveals they're in no way being more impacted than anyone else.

Half the rate of those who were working age though?

[sonicbook]

Teachers have died at HALF the rate of the UK population in general. Do you expect teachers should simply be regarded as golden, irreplaceable heroes that must be put on a pedestal and never regarded in the same way as the rest of the population?

I want them regarded as exactly the same as the rest of the population and given at least some protection in the workplace.

Schools have been shut and vulnerable teachers were shielding a week or two even before lockdown so your first point can and will change.

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

Bananabread8

Why is it not correct that staff sickness will cause bubbles or even whole schools to be closed? Who will supervise the children in the absence of teachers? My son's school was on the verge of closing before lockdown due to the numbers of staff off sick and isolating. The only thing that stopped it was the number of students also off so they collapsed classes and shared the students amongst the remaining staff.

It's ridiculous to think that schools are just going to run as normal. Parents will be missing work anyway if schools are closed or if their child is unwell in anyway.

[motherrunner]

@frumpety

What I would like to know is if a child has symptoms, like a cough, how quickly will that child be tested and how soon can they return to school and their family come out of isolation ?
Because that is what we are facing as we head towards Winter, whole families having to isolate until tested, because their child has a cough. You won't be able to send a child to school with a normal cold and cough as they will be sent straight back home and you will all have to self isolate until tested ?
Primary age children are more likely to present with upper respiratory symptoms apparently, if they have any symptoms at all.
Is there enough slack in the testing system to cope with this ?

And the same goes for us teachers. We also need to follow the same guidance and many of us have families. DH is a teacher in another school, DD in juniors, DS in infants. I will have to isolate if they present with symptoms and I am just one teacher.

This is why we want the same protection as other members of the working public. We want schools to be as safe as they can be, to reduce transmission as much as possible so we can stay open.

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Who is saying teachers are not allowed to wear PPE ?

Sen teacher here.

The speech therapists who work in our school are told by proxy of nhs to wear ppe. The staff aren't allowed to. My head was furious.

[VashtaNerada]

My school (Primary) had it in March just before lockdown. Many staff and children with similar symptoms. A couple of teachers got a test just before they stopped doing them and tested positive, I’d be very surprised if we didn’t all have the same thing.

[mosquitofeast]

@WombOfOnesOwn

200 teachers sounds like a lot!

But it isn't. In fact, teachers have been quite shielded.

Of course, there are 500,000 teachers in the UK, a nation of 60 million people. That means eight-tenths of a percent of the UK population is teachers.

In the UK so far, 45,000 people have died of COVID complications.

Eight-tenths of one percent of this figure would be about 400.

Teachers have died at HALF the rate of the UK population in general. Do you expect teachers should simply be regarded as golden, irreplaceable heroes that must be put on a pedestal and never regarded in the same way as the rest of the population?

It's WILDLY ridiculous for teachers to whine that they're somehow being imposed upon when a quick look at the numbers reveals they're in no way being more impacted than anyone else.

200 teachers is a lot of deaths.

and 10x more teachers than that have been left incapacitated

and 100 x more have resigned over safety fears.

So in a profession where there is a critical shortage, where 11% of experienced staff leave each year and 10% join as brand new and inexperienced staff, the losses last year are over 15%.

With around 5% of the work force leaving directly for covid related reasons,

[BrieAndChilli]

@mosquitofeast
Just to pick up on one of your points. Buses. Our county - we are rural, no cities just towns and villages worked out that in order to social distance on school transport they would need an extra 1000 buses. Times that by all the local authorities (about 80 in the U.K.) that’s an extra 80,000 buses. Where do you propose all these buses will come from?? Yes in an ideal world we would have enough buses to social distance but it’s just not possible to do everything perfectly.

[bigglewiggle]

and I didn't come into any surfaces anywhere, other than those that had been in my house for months, or at school

This is so idiotic.

[BrieAndChilli]

Plus would need extra drivers - all would need to pass the relevant tests etc

[WanderingMilly]

This idea that no-one has caught COVID from a school child is nonsense. Many in our school (small, private school) did, including myself.
At first we thought the children had colds, but by the time COVID was on the news and lockdown imminent, we realised that was what the children had. I had only just started my job, literally hadn't been anywhere else except the school and then to my flat (live on my own) so it did come from the school.

I do not teach but look after the sick children. We had a small child come with high temperature and a cough. Intermittent, dry cough which they couldn't help. I sat with that child for half an hour while I waited for parents to collect, the day before lockdown. Family subsequently all went down with COVID during lockdown.

A week later I also had the virus, and was very ill with it - I hadn't been anywhere else at all. I have subsequently been tested and shown to have the antibodies too, it was certainly COVID. There is absolutely no other place I could have got it from....even if it was from "a surface" it was from the school, so yes, staff do catch COVID at school. But I honestly think it was directly from the child.

[minnieok]

I posted on another thread this but in summary: you need to balance the risk of Covid against the very real risk of kids futures being completely wrecked by lack of education, with the most disadvantaged at the biggest risk. There's kids whose parents stuck them in front of the tv in March and haven't seen a book or worksheet since, no everyone has internet or a computer, kids are abused at home and are slipping though the net ... Lower educational achievement is associated with lower life expectancy and also risky behaviour, the study I saw for this was American but it happens here too, getting involved in crime, drugs, early pregnancy.

Yes there's a risk with opening schools but some of us have worked since March, 5 or 6 days a week with vulnerable, elderly and marginalised people, far bigger risk groups than schools.

Giving parents an option to have quality online teaching is a good idea but it needs to be enforced so kids don't slip through the net (parents say they are doing online school but aren't) in fact in the 21st century some kids might permanently benefit from online school and vulnerable teachers can be redeployed to teach them. However for the remainder who need to attend school they need to open, with hand sanitizer at the ready.

I've not seen any corroboration on that 200 figure, is that U.K. or worldwide? As we weren't testing in March we cannot say how many kids caught it or whether I had it from my job (lost taste and smell). I'm sure teachers are worried, but we also fully reopened this week so it's not like teachers are alone - try have 2-300 strangers passing through weekly, several drunk (at 10am) and mask refusing!

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

@frumpety

What I would like to know is if a child has symptoms, like a cough, how quickly will that child be tested and how soon can they return to school and their family come out of isolation ?
Because that is what we are facing as we head towards Winter, whole families having to isolate until tested, because their child has a cough. You won't be able to send a child to school with a normal cold and cough as they will be sent straight back home and you will all have to self isolate until tested ?
Primary age children are more likely to present with upper respiratory symptoms apparently, if they have any symptoms at all.
Is there enough slack in the testing system to cope with this ?

Even with a negative test if symptoms remain you still have to isolate. So a child who has a non Covid infection, tests negative but continues to remain unwell will still have to stay at home. Presumably wholesale wearing of masks will also cut down on normal coughs and colds - even more reason to use them.

[bigglewiggle]

I will listen to PHE over anecdotal stories from someone who is insisting they levitated throughout March, only touching surfaces in school or at home.

The evidence suggests that children don't spread it. So yes, you will need to take the same safety measures most the UK workforce are now taking to avoid transmission between your colleagues.

Your work is vital. You have a duty to provide an education to the children you teach. The vast majority of people are back to work and living with the risk of the virus. It's time for you to do the same.

Starting 1727 threads on Mumsnet won't change anything.

[sonicbook]

Yes there's a risk with opening schools but some of us have worked since March, 5 or 6 days a week with vulnerable, elderly and marginalised people, far bigger risk groups than schools.

With safety measures in place I'd assume?

I'm sure teachers are worried, but we also fully reopened this week so it's not like teachers are alone - try have 2-300 strangers passing through weekly, several drunk (at 10am) and mask refusing!

There are 1200 pupils in my school. I personally will be in a tiny room with one window and no PPE with approx 135 of them every single day.
These children will be unable to avoid one another or distance in the corridors.

Have you every seen secondary school children together. In the week before lockdown they were coughing and spitting on each other shouting haha you've got the virus.

In terms of virus transmission I'd take the drunks.

[mosquitofeast]

OP were you tested for coronvirus? As there wasn’t much testing back in March, were the students tested?

no, even those in hospital, even those on oxygen were not tested. I did have blisters which were photographed at the time and have later been confirmed as likely covid blisters , by a researcher related to the Zoe app. They did at one point ask for photographs of blisters to be sent in. But unless there was another severe and deadly illness causing breathing difficulties going around at the same time, we had covid.

[Ethelfleda]

What I would like to know is if a child has symptoms, like a cough, how quickly will that child be tested and how soon can they return to school and their family come out of isolation?

My 2 year old DS has been back in nursery since June. He had a temp on Tues eve. Booked a drive through test for Wednesday at 11am, results back by midnight and he was back in nursery on Thursday morning (obviously with a negative test)

His nursery have been great.

[TorysSuckRevokeArticle50]

I am a parent and I understand completely how challenging home schooling while WFH full time has been and how much children have missed their friends and the structure of school.

I find myself increasingly frustrated by all the studies and the facts that people spout about how low transmission is in schools for several reasons.

• until end of May children could not be tested unless they were hospitalised so we have no idea how many children had CV pre end of May.
• it was only in June that the testing was widened from keyworkers families to anyone with symptoms so that was another month where we have no accurate data on how many children had CV.
• when schools closed to the majority they started only having children of keyworkers or vulnerable children present. In our school that meant bubbles of 5 or 6 maximum per class. The curriculum was suspended so those children spent the majority of their day outside playing, when they were inside they were 2 meters apart at all times and there were enough staff onsite to continuously clean.

In 2 weeks DD will return to school, 30 children in the class, no way to keep desks even 1 meter apart. No PPE, no additional staff so standard ability to clean surfaces.

We have no way of saying that that is safe, it definitely doesn't come close to even the minimum safety measures being put in place in supermarkets or office buildings.

I will be sending DD because she needs it, but I'm definitely not comfortable with it and I can absolutely understand why teachers aren't.

[sonicbook]

Your work is vital. You have a duty to provide an education to the children you teach. The vast majority of people are back to work and living with the risk of the virus. It's time for you to do the same.


The vast majority of people have been back at work with safety measures in place. It's time for my employer to do the same so that I can carry on my vital work.

[herecomesthsun]

Educational settings where covid is said to have been found

[Jrobhatch29]

"200 teachers is a lot of deaths.

and 10x more teachers than that have been left incapacitated

and 100 x more have resigned over safety fears."

How do you know 100 x more have resigned? I am a teacher and I know alot of teachers and not one has resigned

[Hyggefun]

Sick to death of the government throwing bones out to the media to gauge public reactions. This morning's nonsense on the BBC site being a prime example.
If kids don't spread the virus why do over 11s wear masks on public transport, in places or worship, in cinemas? Why are other countries recommending the use of masks for some or all of the time in schools? What magic is at work that stops 11-18s spreading the virus? It's just more lies from the people that promised you 350 million a week for the NHS or free summer schools for your kids. Their kids will be safely tucked away in private schools where small classes, social distancing and more than likely ppe will make sure they are safe and well and if not they'll pull them out and organise private tutors. Our kids are literally going to be Guinea pigs and the government know the only way they can sell this is by spouting nonsense about kids not being transmitters. It's utter twaddle and extremely dangerous.

[sonicbook]

@TorysSuckRevokeArticle50

I am a parent and I understand completely how challenging home schooling while WFH full time has been and how much children have missed their friends and the structure of school.

I find myself increasingly frustrated by all the studies and the facts that people spout about how low transmission is in schools for several reasons.

• until end of May children could not be tested unless they were hospitalised so we have no idea how many children had CV pre end of May.
• it was only in June that the testing was widened from keyworkers families to anyone with symptoms so that was another month where we have no accurate data on how many children had CV.
• when schools closed to the majority they started only having children of keyworkers or vulnerable children present. In our school that meant bubbles of 5 or 6 maximum per class. The curriculum was suspended so those children spent the majority of their day outside playing, when they were inside they were 2 meters apart at all times and there were enough staff onsite to continuously clean.

In 2 weeks DD will return to school, 30 children in the class, no way to keep desks even 1 meter apart. No PPE, no additional staff so standard ability to clean surfaces.

We have no way of saying that that is safe, it definitely doesn't come close to even the minimum safety measures being put in place in supermarkets or office buildings.

I will be sending DD because she needs it, but I'm definitely not comfortable with it and I can absolutely understand why teachers aren't.

Absolutely

[frumpety]

Even with a negative test if symptoms remain you still have to isolate

Well that's going to be a lot of children and teachers and parents isolating for potentially a common cold.

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

@bigglewiggle

I will listen to PHE over anecdotal stories from someone who is insisting they levitated throughout March, only touching surfaces in school or at home.

The evidence suggests that children don't spread it. So yes, you will need to take the same safety measures most the UK workforce are now taking to avoid transmission between your colleagues.

Your work is vital. You have a duty to provide an education to the children you teach. The vast majority of people are back to work and living with the risk of the virus. It's time for you to do the same.

Starting 1727 threads on Mumsnet won't change anything.

Why only PHE? Why not governments around the world? Is there any other country opening schools with no precautions at all? I really doubt that any other country is acting like Covid doesn't exist in relation to schools.

Honestly, I really think teaching unions should be coordinating a mass resignation of teachers unless proper PPE and social distancing is brought in to all schools. I also hope that if any teacher becomes ill or dies that their union supports a claim for negligence against the employer