Coronovirus IS transmitted in schools

[mosquitofeast]

And lots of teachers have died

I am just clarifying this, as I don't know how many times I have read on Mumsnet that this has never happened. I don't know where this misinformation is coming from, but its rubbish

It was transmitted several hundred times in my school (secondary)before lock down. Hundreds of children and dozens of staff were affected. Some have been seriously ill and have been left with long term health problems, such as low lung capacity and loss of hearing.

I am a teacher and I was infected at school. I did not use public transport, or go into any shops or other businesses for the whole of March, and I was living alone. The only time I was in any contact with anyone else was in school

A school near us (also secondary) had to close a week before school closures were announced, as so many teachers were infected.

Thankfully, no staff or student in our school died, although several students have lost parents, and many have lost grandparents. One of my sixthformers has withdrawn her university application as her mum has lost a lung and a leg and now can't run her home and care for her younger children on her own.

However, according to the union, around 200 school staff have dies to date, so we have just been lucky so far.

So please don't repost this fake news that "no one has ever caught covid in a school" - because |I have watched it happen in front of my eyes, and experienced it myself.

[RandomComment]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/05/covid-19-may-spread-more-easily-schools-than-thought-report-warns?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

This was reported in the Guardian very recently but it was almost straight away buried by Williamson came out and said the opposite.

[rookiemere]

Usforthem is a lobbying group. The government was not required to agree to all of their requests. It's cheaper for the government not to have to provide PPE and more crowd friendly not to force the students to do it.

Interesting that Usforthem will be the whipping boy if numbers go up.

I joined as in Scotland as the default plans would have meant DCs getting 1-2 days in school a week. I don't have strong views about PPE or cuddly toys in the classroom or plastic bags for your lunch, I only have strong views about my DC getting a decent education.

[walksen]

Ppe is advised as being unneccessary in education settings in england except if you are providing personal care.

If parents want kids at school and a routine to normality ( in some sense) we need a sustainable model of opening. The government spent what 10bn on test and trace but it is not working well enough. They were quick to increase testing capacity with monthly targets but won't increase it further to try and keep covid out of schools?

They don't advocate wearing masks even for just moving around school On here if you propose that it is child abuse.
I don't know why we bother discussing things anyway; none of it will change what the government does.

[DanceMonkey19]

@WombOfOnesOwn

Many workplaces have been closed since March. It seems very much like teachers are being impacted just like other worker types who have had time out of the regular workplace.

There's absolutely no evidence there's somehow extra transmission to teachers or that teachers have been unduly impacted. I don't see why there's so much special pleading for this one profession and no others.

Why is it special pleading when teachers are simply asking for the same measures as every other indoor space? Ie SD and masks?

[Bluntness100]

Op you are aware that the infected and Death rate for teachers is average across the population right? That there is over half a million teachers in the uk? That teachers are just as prone to catching it as anyone else, not significantly more or less?

And that there is little to no evidence kids transmit it, so it’s adult to adult? And that some teachers live or socilise with other people? Who are not teachers, and Who may have transmitted it? And any spread likely this way?

Your posts seem confused and panicked. What school were you in that hundreds of pupils and dozens of staff were tested positive for corona? This seems highly unlikely. To say the least.

[sonicbook]

@Bananabread8 I can't follow what you mean sorry. I'll try and answer as best I can - sorry if not what you mean.

No I think the official reason for the claim is that it's not necessary as children don't spread it.

I don't think parents would be at all happy sending their children to school in masks. There has been enormous pressure from parents off the back of these supposed findings that kids don't spread coronavirus.

The counter findings that they do in fact spread it don't count apparently.

[Pixxie7]

walksen@ it sounds as if you have a chip on your shoulder, lots of people have had to work during the height of the pandemic without proper ppI. However you can’t compare the situation in the nhs with schools, reopening. I am no fan of the government but it has spent hours trying to sort schools out.

[BwanaMakubwa]

Not that I expect much sympathy, but I am an educational psychologist. A hefty part of my job is to sit, often in a windowless cupboard, with one child less than 1 metre away for 1.5 hours or so whilst assessments are completed. And to do this in 3 or 4 different schools a week. The rest of my time I am in other schools sat in meeting rooms or in a busy office where we share computers and desk space (hot dealing)

Part of our concern is that we will be vectors across schools breaking "bubbles" unless we do only 1 school per fortnight which isn't very practical. We are potentially exposed to the germs of 12 or 15 schools not just 1 bubble in 1 school. We work in extremely close proximity to students. You cannot be 2m away from someone you are doing a cognitive or other assessment with.

We aren't being offered PPE and tbh with out client group I can't see how it would work, apart from maybe a face shield. You cannot have a muffled voice behind a mask to interact with a child with a hearing impairment or language processing problems. There are other professions who work like we do - speech therapists, occupational therapists, specialist teachers of dyslexia, reading recovery, HI and VI advisory teachers, etc.

No one has thought much about our work I suppose. For my part, pretty sure I had it back in March so not too worried for myself.

The 65 deaths were workers in education btw. Not just teachers. I think TAs are at higher risk myself as they cannot do the 'less than 15 mins with any 1 child' as recommended in the advice. Neither can we.

[sonicbook]

@Bluntness100

We've been locked down so the data you're spouting is meaningless.

People are panicked because they're being sent into a potentially unsafe working environment.

[Dissimilitude]

I have some sympathy for teachers. We should be taking all sensible mitigation steps to protect them (including re-closing non essential business to get community transmission down if needed).

But schools going back has to be a priority. Education is either important enough to tolerate some risk (with mitigation) or it’s not.

The question boils down to whether the mitigation steps are enough.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I have no idea why people are convinced that pupils can’t spread it?

And as for the argument that hardly any teachers have died...well of course they haven’t, schools have been closed for four months. I imagine if schools had remained opened during the lockdown then the amount of teachers and young children contracting the virus and getting seriously ill from it, would have been a hell of a lot higher.

Of course children can spread it - have people seen the size of the ‘children’ in years 9, 10 and 11?

The teachers are basically going to be coming across the equivalent of 100’s of adults, shut in small unventilated rooms with them for many hours and with no PPE and apparently that’s fine?!

I really, really hope the opening of schools doesn’t lead to new mass outbreaks and the pupils/staff are collateral damage, but I’m not that naive.

I’m glad I’m not a teacher, especially a secondary school teacher.

The best of luck to you all, even if other people are telling you to just ‘suck it up’ I think you all have every right to be unhappy about what working environments you are being forced into.

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

Do people also not understand that by not demanding infection control measures in the schools they are contributing to what they claim to not want - school closures. If teachers are off sick because they've caught it from students then parts of, or even whole schools will have to close. Is that what you want?

Why isn't it far more sensible to take precautions to try to keep schools open? It seems nonsense to me to stick your heads in the sand and pretend that people in schools won't get sick and staff won't be absent.

[mosquitofeast]

Nobody is saying it can’t be transmitted in schools, but what is your solution, shut schools for the next 3 years?

What's my solution? part time school, Year 7-9 in Tuesday -Friday one week, and years 10-12 in Tuesday -Friday the next week. Monday for cleaning and setting up ( although leaving the school empty over the weekend will help with sterilisation too)

Forget the idea of year group bubbles of several hundred students. Year 7-9 can be in bubbles of 15, stay in the same classroom all day, stay in the same seat in the same class room all week, except maybe one full day in a science lab, and one full day in an are suitable for music/drama/PE. Year 10-12 will have to mix more, as they do different subjects, but bubbles, and movement around the school to be kept to a minimum

No taking in work to mark, online marking only, and online staff meetings only.

The most vulnerable teachers or teachers with the most vulnerable families to be either working from home, just supporting the years groups that are off site that week, or limited to a single bubble from year 7-9.

A fleet of buses and coaches dedicated to school transport only, with social distancing /bubbles maintained on this transport, and strict cleaning

Masks and visors. Hand and shoe disinfectant at doors, temperature checks at arrival, staggered entry and home time and lunchtime. No breaktime. All windows open at all times. Blazers and ties removed from school uniform, a complete change of clothing for every student and staff member every day, which means flexibility on school uniform rules

In order to achieve this, schools with space need additional teaching spaces, prefab huts to go up in playgrounds, for schools without space this is going to be harder.

More school staff employed. This is going to be really hard, as there aren't enough teachers in the country anyway. but no supply staff on the premises.

This regime may need to be in place for several years. Nothing here is a radical suggestion, all these measures are in place in other countries.

[sonicbook]

Do people also not understand that by not demanding infection control measures in the schools they are contributing to what they claim to not want - school closures. If teachers are off sick because they've caught it from students then parts of, or even whole schools will have to close. Is that what you want?

Correct

[Chaotic45]

There is risk all around us atm. If as a teacher you aren't comfortable with what you're being told and the evidence behind it then you have an option (just like the rest of us) to resign from your job.

Some people have carried on working despite the risk to them. Personally I'm extremely thankful to them as they have kept the country running. However no one should feel forced into working- but also you have no right to expect to be paid any longer if you are not prepared to do the job for which you are paid. I accept teaching continued during lockdown but now the requirement is that schools return to in school teaching....

I expect many resignations from my school, which will of course cause major issues, however having lots of teachers refusing to work but getting paid causes major issues too.

[Bananabread8]

Do masks really work though? I don’t know if they do or not. But I do wear one at work. What makes me think they may not work is that fact that you are breathing in a mask for hours and then touch your face without even realising and children do too even more so. So would they be actually useful in a school? What will the teacher do if the child took the mask off?? (Children do misbehave at times)
Insisting a child wears a mask could be seen as going beyond their role. I don’t see wearing a mask as plane sailing as some others do... not for kids anyways.

[JacobReesMogadishu]

Andy Burnham has just been on bbc news talking sense. He agrees schools need to open but he says the vital thing is sorting out track and trace, these new quick tests, etc. Only by doing this will we will be able to squash any local spikes before they become a widespread issue.

[Bananabread8]

@sonicbook

*
Do people also not understand that by not demanding infection control measures in the schools they are contributing to what they claim to not want - school closures. If teachers are off sick because they've caught it from students then parts of, or even whole schools will have to close. Is that what you want?*

Correct

No it is not.

Other side of the coin. Parents have no money as they have had to call work and say they can’t come in due to child care. Few weeks passes... same thing. What would you pick?

[rookiemere]

Long term part time schooling would mean that many parents - mostly mothers - would lose their jobs. Perhaps they could become teachers to fill the gap

[sonicbook]

There is risk all around us atm. If as a teacher you aren't comfortable with what you're being told and the evidence behind it then you have an option (just like the rest of us) to resign from your job.

There has been no effort to mitigate the risk as there has in every other profession. No I won't be resigning because my employer won't put safety measures in place thanks.

Some people have carried on working despite the risk to them.
With various safety measures in place.


Personally I'm extremely thankful to them as they have kept the country running. However no one should feel forced into working- but also you have no right to expect to be paid any longer if you are not prepared to do the job for which you are paid.

I am. I'd like to do it as safely as possible, the same as everyone else.

[BwanaMakubwa]

@mosquitofeast
"No supply staff on the premises"

And no child sees an ed psych? Or a speech therapist? Or goes to camhs / healthy young minds for an appointment? And with only 4 days in school a fortnight there will be plenty more needing camhs. No occupational therapist visits? No social workers?

No taking in of work to mark, really? Why can't students put their books in a pile and they be left in a lidded box for 48 hours if we think that paper is a major transmission vector?


What will happen to the exam results of these

[mosquitofeast]

@Userzzz

If you're so scared of catching Covid, maybe you should quit your job and find another profession.

well, a lot of teacher have done so, and moved into other jobs where they feel they and their families are safer, which is going to mean some schools won't be able to fully reopen anyway, as they are understaffed.

And my school was so understaffed in autumn that we were combining up to 4 classes in the canteen and sports hall under already in non covid times

[sonicbook]

@Bananabread8 you aren't comparing like for like. Of course parents are going to suffer with childcare issues - I certainly will! That doesn't make it any less true that going back full pelt is going to result in staff absence and school closures anyway.

[walksen]

"it has spent hours trying to sort schools out."

Says it all when they had months to come up with a workable plan. I guarantee school leadership in every school have spent hundreds of hours wading through ever changing guidance which in most ways after all this time provides lip service to reducing risk. Ultimately all they have done is scrap ppe and SD ( as it is not compulsory and only needed " if possible"). I have lots of colleagues and ta's in their 50's and 60's who will be at risk as a result who would be entitled by law to protection if they worked somewhere else, not to mention vulnerable kids those with grandparent as carers etc.

Even the child commissioner has said we should be testing people in schools. The government said it is better to test only after symptoms when really it's because it would cost money.

[frumpety]

What I would like to know is if a child has symptoms, like a cough, how quickly will that child be tested and how soon can they return to school and their family come out of isolation ?
Because that is what we are facing as we head towards Winter, whole families having to isolate until tested, because their child has a cough. You won't be able to send a child to school with a normal cold and cough as they will be sent straight back home and you will all have to self isolate until tested ?
Primary age children are more likely to present with upper respiratory symptoms apparently, if they have any symptoms at all.
Is there enough slack in the testing system to cope with this ?