Why wouldn't people cooperate with track and trace?

[MRex]

Reports seem to suggest 1 in 4 people won't cooperate with track and trace. Why would that be?

I can understand perhaps a few contacts being hidden and contacted privately in some cases. Or your occasional black market worker / drug dealer / etc, maybe contacting people privately or not. But 1 in 4 is loads. Any ideas?

[cologne4711]

Because they don't want to lose income or be put onto a "stage" of their employer's sickness policy. Personally I think the government should say that any dismissal because of isolation is automatically unfair.

[Cornettoninja]

@cologne4711

Because they don't want to lose income or be put onto a "stage" of their employer's sickness policy. Personally I think the government should say that any dismissal because of isolation is automatically unfair.

I agree the government need to implement something to protect employees from their employers. Given tests can be returned on one or two days now I think people should be paid as normal while waiting for their test results and then either return to work with a negative result or revert to whatever their sickness pay is with a positive result.

I realise that doesn’t solve the issue of some employers only offering SSP or sanctioning hours from zero hour contracts but at least lays down a firm line from the government and encourages those who would otherwise be compliant to participate.

[nether]

I will not be passing on any individual's data without seeking their prior permission. I know that Infirmation Commissioner has ruled that some actions that wouid otherwise be impermissible can occur for urgent pandemic matters, provided it is justifiable and proportionate

I do not trust thebgivernment to act proportionately, given that they did not look at even the vaguest idea of 20 years retention and potential integration with other data sets, and laugh them into oblivion.

So I would provide details of locations I'd visited, and undertake to ring back with info on contacts (also because I'd want to ring in on a number I knew to be bona fide - no matter how plausible the caller - before passing on some' personal data.

i might use the Apple/Google system, but that rather depends on what the final capabilities of the British app is. But as the tech companies seem to be paying considerably greater attention to proportionate holding and use of data, and will no allow an app that breaches their standards, there is some hope.

[nether]

"I think people should be paid as normal while waiting for their test results and then either return to work with a negative result or revert to whatever their sickness pay is with a positive result."

That's fine if you are the first symptomatic person

But if you are identified as a close contact of a positive person, you will need full 14 days isolation as that is the length of the isolation period.

There could be a lot of people affected if there is a confirmed positive case in your DC's classroom

[Cornettoninja]

There could be a lot of people affected if there is a confirmed positive case in your DC's classroom

Which is exactly why it’s important that the majority of people are on board so the chances of that initial person having covid and not something else is minimal. Nobody is going to be asked to isolate for fourteen days without a positive test for that initial person.

I agree that this has the potential to be utterly shit and completely disruptive but I haven’t heard of a better way to manage it and my concern now is that the government need to do more to back up employees because I think they underestimate exactly how little some employers care about their staff/wider society when faced with loss in profit/productivity. It’s a short term view that risks them losing a good percentage of their workforce to illness anyway but there are companies that will happily gamble those odds and be covertly clear to their employees what will happen to their jobs if they don’t toe the line.

That doesn’t cover every scenario but it does apply to a significant portion of the population.

[soloula]

The system is open to abuse. There's no checks to verify contacts. That means people have to take it on trust that they have actually been a contact of some unknown person who has tested positive. The person could mistakenly name you (they confuse you with someone else, you saw them outwith the infectious time frame but they muddle their days up, you were over 2m away, you were less time...). Its even possible they could maliciously name you having been nowhere near you. And so on. A totally flawed system. And many people can't afford to self isolate.

[FizzFan]

Because you could have to self isolate several times, you might get sick pay but I ain’t living on that for several 2 week periods.

[HeIenaDove]

I assume if people don’t cooperate then they may introduce fines

Tories have form for nonsensical shit. Sex workers would get fines for soliciting then have to be back out on the streets to pay the fine. I remember this being on the news in the 80s

So the same principle would happen here. People would go back to work rather than isolate to pay the fine!

[ineedaholidaynow]

I assume if people in the same workplace keep getting the virus then something would need to be done in that workplace. Look how quickly it has spread in the meat packing factories. So presumably the workforce can’t go back to the same working conditions.

Workplaces will be failing H&S requirements if they are not COVID safe. If a huge number of people are getting sick in the same place it will come to the attention of officials

[cantmovewont]

I don't trust the British government. At all.

[Bagelsandbrie]

I think it’s all pointless really. I say that as someone who is clinically vulnerable and in the shielding category. People aren’t requesting tests if they have symptoms, people can’t be bothered if they’re mild enough just to manage at home. People aren’t isolating. They’re carrying on as normal. So might as well not download the app and bother with any of it at all. That’s how I feel and I expect a lot of others feel too.

[Topseyt]

If an unknown person were to ask me for the details of my contacts I would be very reluctant indeed to give it to them. Nor would I want other people giving mine out.

I think the system is far too open to abuse. There seem to be no checks and balances. Most of the random unknown callers to my phone have usually turned out to be spammers. How would I know the real track and tracers from spammers?

Sorry, but I just find it very hard to trust this government. It has never yet met a system that it wasn't able to screw up. In fact, screwing up seems to be one one and only thing it is able to do reliably.

So why should I trust this particular system? It isn't that I don't want to co-operate with something that is meant to help us emerge from this mess. It is a matter of confidence in our leaders and their advisers, too many of whom have not done themselves any favours at all (Cummingsgate, etc.).

[Xenia]

1. Some are self employed. If I am sick I lose hundreds of pounds an hour. The state would not be paying me that - in fact think not even a penny as a sole trader nor universal credit as I have savings.

1. Some have only been in contact with a few people and have told them directly because they don't trust the state to do it - the state does most things extremely badly.

1. It could breach data protection laws to ass on details of others to the state and/or that person might never speak to you again as you may have lost them £20k by forcing them to stay at home/miss the chance of a major contract etc.

1. Some people do not mind if the sick old and weak die who are probably going to die anyway.

[LangClegsInSpace]

Because this government has not provided any support for contacts who need to quarantine. Two weeks on SSP is a massive financial hit for most people, especially as it comes on top of a long period of reduced income for many and especially as it may happen more than once.

Because this government has squandered so much public trust over the course of this pandemic (and there wasn't a lot to start with). Many people do not trust the government with their data, or their friends', relatives' and colleagues' data. Often with good reason.

Because this government has given so many mixed messages over the course of this pandemic. We were told 'lockdown' was to flatten the curve and save the NHS (which we have achieved, thanks to a frightening hollowing out of the NHS and a couple of million 'extremely clinically vulnerable' people being told to get in the fucking cupboard and stay there until it's safe for the rest of the population to go to the pub) - you can't blame people for thinking we've done what we need to because that's what they were told we needed to do and we have done it. A few people are even still banging on about herd immunity because the government said that too.

Why would people think contact tracing was important when the government spent February, March, April and the first half of May pretending it was not important?

[HeIenaDove]

Plenty of money to paint a plane though.

[Ilovemypantry]

I don’t quite understand the Track and Trace.

Surely if you know you feel unwell and think you have Coronavirus you would automatically contact the people you have been in contact with recently. Why do you need to provide a tracer with phone numbers of your friends/family for them to make contact with them?
Or am I missing something?

[JaceLancs]

I don’t trust them with storage and potential misuse of my data

[ineedaholidaynow]

@Ilovemypantry if you have been to a pub/restaurant you won't know the people who might have been at the table next to you. As you will be closer than 2m then they come within your contacts. That is why under the new rules if you go to a pub etc you have to give them your contact details.

[Ilovemypantry]

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@Ilovemypantry if you have been to a pub/restaurant you won't know the people who might have been at the table next to you. As you will be closer than 2m then they come within your contacts. That is why under the new rules if you go to a pub etc you have to give them your contact details.[/quote]
Yes I understand that part of it...providing your details to a pub/restaurant but what about the person you’ve been standing next to in the supermarket...can it pick that up too?

[ineedaholidaynow]

@Ilovemypantry you won't be standing within 2m of them for 15 minutes in a shop

[LangClegsInSpace]

@Ilovemypantry yes you are missing something. None of your friends or family will be able to take time off work to isolate unless they are officially told (i.e. by the government) that they are a contact.

DIY contact tracing only works if none of your contacts has a job.

[Starlightstarbright1]

I am self employed- I have been on reduced income since Easter, I don’t go to Crowded beaches. I don’t generally act irresponsibly ( in terms of guidance) so I feel I have given enough .

[Derbygerbil]

There's no limit to the number of times that you could be asked to self isolate so if you're unlucky you'd be screwed. Not sure you even get sick pay?

If we get to the point when people are being required to self-isolate again and again, then we’d have had a massive infection surge again and track and trace would be overwhelmed!

[LastTrainEast]

@ohthegoats

Because the government don't follow their own guidelines, why should anyone else.

because it prevents people dying. Are you 12?

[Redolent]

@Ilovemypantry

I don’t quite understand the Track and Trace.

Surely if you know you feel unwell and think you have Coronavirus you would automatically contact the people you have been in contact with recently. Why do you need to provide a tracer with phone numbers of your friends/family for them to make contact with them?
Or am I missing something?

Under the new relaxations on 4th July, things could get very complicated and track/trace may well be required. You can go and stay with family on Monday, that same family could go to a birthday party on Tuesday, their birthday party hosts could have lunch at a cafe on Wednesday then go visit the in laws on Wednesday... If you test positive later that week, how are you going to keep track of all those connected interactions? Are you going to call up the people you visited and tell THEM to call everyone else up, etc? I can’t see that being viable.

Interesting case study yesterday of a family in Texas wheee 18 people now have the virus.

“ The infections began after one relative, who was unknowingly sick with coronavirus, came into contact with seven family members at a birthday party in Carrollton, Texas, on May 30, according to area outlet WFAA. Those seven relatives spread the virus to 10 others through interactions.”