So no hugging, mixing households until a vaccine?

[NutellaOnButteryToast]

Hi,

I have been wondering this for a long time and then last week, Nick Hancock admitted that this would likely be the case.....which is horrendous.

If we do manage to keep R under 1 and eventually well below, which I do understand is looking unlikely without more waves, then why won't it ever be safe to mix with our loved ones until there's a vaccine?

I'm starting to feel suffocated by the idea, as I know so many are.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks.

[Mrsfussypants1]

Personally, I've reached my breaking point. My daughter, son in law and grandaughter live a five minute walk away. My granddaughter is almost 4. We tried to meet up for a walk after the rules were changed at 2 meters distance, grandaughter was desperate to hold my hand and spent the whole time being reminded not too. My daughter's mental health isn't doing to well, she needs a hug, I need to help her. Both her and son in law furloughed or working from home. Grandaughter will not return to nursery on June 8th (so no bubble mixing there) son in law goes out for food and does big shop monthly with a smaller top up as infrequently as they can. I am a young grandma (40s) and have followed all the guidelines, no health issues, fit and healthy. Breaking point is coming.

[NutellaOnButteryToast]

It's difficult to think about how many people are seriously struggling and would rather not be here anymore, than continue like this. That's utter desperation for you.

I count us as lucky compared to a lot and I have days where I just cry and feel sick, so when I think of those who are completely alone and are being told that change in that department isn't even on the agenda, my heart breaks.

At this stage, there are two groups of 'flouters'. Those who just don't give a shit and want to party, drink and have BBQs with friends and those who have followed the rules, but are now at absolute breaking point and desperately need to see a bit of light.

It's difficult to see the light alone.

[CoachBombay]

Nutella my mental health was getting to a seriously bad place. It was break the rules or break me. Living alone with a ADHD suspected autistic 5 year old, I'd started to fantasise about jumping out of a window or something just to get so badly hurt I could be taken away to hospital for a break! So I invited a friend round for some company.

[trappedsincesundaymorn]

I hug my dad at least 3 times a week when I go in to his house....we've been doing so for 6 weeks now and we're both very much alive and well.

[Spam88]

The most recent Welsh document clearly lays out that contact with family and friends (without social distancing) won't be permitted until there's a vaccine or effective treatment, for those saying people are misunderstanding. Everyone will be back in work and you can go to the pub (albeit both with distancing), team sports will be allowed, and schools will be open. But no going too close to friends and families.

Realistically for us, with young children, that means we can't see people because they won't understand they have to stay away. We've followed the rules (genuinely haven't broken them once), but unless there's an end in sight within the next month or two then we will be seeing family, and long as everyone involved is happy with the risk. Honestly I can't believe that's the last thing governments are looking at allowing.

[Splodgetastic]

I think this is unlikely to be sustainable. Something will have to give. It's possible there could be a vaccine soon, I understand, and that manufacturing is being ramped up, but it's also possible that there won't ever be a vaccine, so the line will have to be drawn somewhere. There isn't a vaccine for HIV, is there?

[NutellaOnButteryToast]

@CoachBombay

[ChocolateCheesecake20]

Totally unrealistic. And i certainly won't be sticking to that.
My mil is meant to be shielding but even she's said that she'd be seeing people soon as its too unbearable.
She sees people everyday and at least one grandkids daily pre lockdown.

[JaneCameByWithALockOfYourHair]

I've seen my boyfriend once a week for the past 3 weeks.

I've got Aspergers the sudden and complete change made me really ill. I was really struggling with work and keeping the house tidy etc. He said that it wasn't worth the distress it was causing me.

We've both followed the rules strictly otherwise.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

Of course it won’t happen you can’t stop people being human unless you restrict them in very forceful ways

I think it’s likely we shall have lifting of restrictions gradually, social distancing to some degree in public and work places shall be part of our lives for some time and we are likely to have out breaks of second/third wave and restrictions will be put temporarily back in place.

Life shall be different for some time (when cinemas open or we can travel more freely social distancing will be put in place) but also we create a new norm and life will carry on and we will find a way around that. We shall be more careful around those that needed to be protected more

[GreyGardens88]

They'd have to let me take a non-essential trip on public transport for me to see mine

[user1497207191]

I think whether we have social distancing for 18 months will depend on what happens to the death rates as restrictions are lifted. if they shoot up then people will continue to comply, if they remain static or drop then they won't.

That's a self fulfilling prophecy then. Because when people stop complying it will lead to rates increasing and vice versa. What is needed is to find the balance where limited social distance keeps rates at a manageable level. I think we'll swing too far one way, then too far the other several times before we find that equilibrium.

[user1497207191]

There isn't a vaccine for HIV, is there?

But there are ways to avoid it and treatment for those who get it.

You can't avoid some pillock sneezing in your face whilst out shopping or some tosser who hasn't washed her hands before making your sandwich.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

I think we'll swing too far one way, then too far the other several times before we find that equilibrium

I agree and it’s the same for other countries we are all in a learning curve.

[user1497207191]

I’m taking the calculated risk approach. My first baby was born on 7th April after a long fight with infertility and ivf to get him here. Whilst I haven’t let any Tom dick of Harry meet him. My mum has and my sister. I needed the emotional support after a traumatic birth and it was important. We had been isolating/social distancing 3 weeks prior To birth and they were symptom free and the same. A calculated and considered risk. That is how we will continue. Small numbers reduced risk.

IF people are sensible, then your "risk based" approached is a good compromise. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have that kind of common sense and logical approach. Hence why huge numbers have to be told exactly what to do and when to do it.

When you think that people were still leaving the country to go on holiday the day before lockdown, after people were told to social distance, avoid unnecessary travel, etc., you see that leaving people to make their own decisions simply doesn't work for many people.

Likewise, in the week before lockdown, a woman walking in our town centre wearing a mask was punched and kicked, simply because she was wearing a mask.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

When people do use their common sense it really means this works for me/us not the great good for everyone

And the vast majority of us no matter how sensible or knowledgeable (as we have seen with senior experts doing what they feel is right for them) we will take a risk at some point just this once won’t harm. With us all doing that ....

I get that people make their own decisions based on what is right for them I have done but we do have to have blanket guidelines to guide us. Look at some of our laws they seem ridiculous but are there because leave us to make decisions for ourselves that’s exactly what we do and not for the greater good

[Splodgetastic]

@user1497207191, my point about HIV is that a vaccine might never happen, but maybe as this is a disease that mainly affects fat, white, middle-aged men there will be more of an impetus to try for this one.

[highmarkingsnowmobile]

The most recent Welsh document clearly lays out that contact with family and friends (without social distancing) won't be permitted until there's a vaccine or effective treatment, for those saying people are misunderstanding. Everyone will be back in work and you can go to the pub (albeit both with distancing), team sports will be allowed, and schools will be open. But no going too close to friends and families.

That's actually ridiculous. Team sports but no getting too close to friends and family. Fuck that.

[user1477391263]

There will be a vaccine.

In the thought-experiment type parallel universe where there isn't a vaccine, people will fairly quickly get fed up and just decide to start taking their chances with the virus.

Previous generations faced smallpox, polio, rabies, TB, bacterial infections w/ no antibiotics. It was grim but they got on with their lives and mostly managed to be happy. COVID19 is threatening from our perspective as a 21st century culture which is not used to things that have no vaccine or quick cures. From a historical point of view it would have ranked very low down the list of "diseases to be worried about."

[user1477391263]

That's actually ridiculous. Team sports but no getting too close to friends and family. hmm Fuck that.

Well, exactly. Why worry about guidance that has a 0% chance of being followed?
I will be starting to have 1-1 playdates and do low-risk stuff from next month (I am not in the UK).

[NutellaOnButteryToast]

but maybe as this is a disease that mainly affects fat, white, middle-aged men there will be more of an impetus to try for this one.

That's not the case. It affects 4 times more men from ethnic backgrounds, than white.

[CoachBombay]

highmarkingsnowmobile indeed, fuck that. Me and my peer group have given up on it all. We will remain in the green here till there is a vaccine/eradication/treatment. God knows where that can be. If rugby boys are going to be able to tackle and scrum. I'm shagging the bloke I've been seeing 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Dowser]

In my town, they are braying for schools not to go back in September.

Fabulous news.
It’s all going to be gone in September....not!
It’s pointless trying to argue with them

[okiedokieme]

Personally I'm ready to take my chances, think I've had it and it was very mild (got lucky as did dp, though he was iller than me). There's no guarantee ever of a vaccine. Most the people who have died had other conditions. Letting us all make our own decisions on risk is not an approach many approve of but it worked for Sweden, they didn't shut restaurants or primary schools.

[Olliephaunt4eyes]

I read something about this last night and felt genuinely suicidal. I can't. I just can't. I feel as if just surviving another two months of this will be a struggle and the prospect of 18 months of not being able to touch anyone outside my household, not being able to play a board game or have dinner with friends, because you can't put two meters between people round a table, not being able to hold my new niece for the first time - it just feels unendurable.