Has the government got paid posters here to quash any dissenting voices?

[ssd]

There's always been robust discussions on politics on mn, but I've noticed lately when ever someone questions the government's track record on covid, certain posters pop up with very similar agendas, defending them to the hilt and trying to throw the discussion round to something else.

I'd like to see when posters actually joined mn, some newer posters must spend all their time on here defending the indefensible.

[kissmewherethesundontshine]

Don't know why they wouldn't even!

[Papatron]

Interesting thread. Yes there are plenty of real people with views on both sides of any debate. But a lot of people are quite naive in thinking that social media is not used to manipulate the masses. Hard to prove that it comes directly from government but corporations do it so why wouldn't government too, especially the intelligence services. You expect me to believe they're not using this tool at home and abroad?

It's really interesting that even the things we are allowed to see and which are written by ordinary civil servants talk about the psychological element of enforcing the lockdown and how it will be policed by peer pressure, social shaming etc rather than by more directly authoritarian measures. I think it was Blair's government that set up the "Nudge Unit" which is now a part-private company figuring out how to get people to behave in certain ways.

I can remember one particular policy in my area of work a few years back where there was a particular (unidentifiable) person who spent several hours a day posting on industry message boards about the issue. For months on end. Always taking a stance which opposed the proposed policy, but being so deranged and making such overblown arguments that everyone spent their time shouting this guy down. The policy gained support and was introduced and he just vanished into thin air, never to be heard from again on any topic. I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure this character was a sophisticated straw-man set up to get everyone riled up at the alternative. Basically by the end of it you wanted to support the policy just to make sure you were on the opposite side of the argument to this loon. This was before Twitter was big or the concept of "bots" was well-known. I've always remembered it and am very suspicious of how public discourse can be shaped by these sorts of interactions.

[Papatron]

And by the way, I'm a parent, my other half's a teacher, and we both want kids to all go back to school as soon as possible.
Doesn't change my view that message boards etc are used in deliberate, organised and paid operations to influence the debate.

[Ulver]

Companies do this as part of influence campaigns.
Psy Group and Black Cube offer this service.
Setting up Facebook and twitter accounts to persuade people, along with bots and other real life interventions.

[Ulver]

To influence elections and business transaction, govt and international policy.

int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/360-trump-project-rome/574d679d1ff58a30836c/optimized/full.pdf

[Papatron]

Blimey. Makes me want to throw away my smartphone.

And what a racket! I bet it's really hard to prove whether these guys actually had any influence in exchange for their 3 million bucks. Each time they back a winner they probably claim all the credit.

[effingterrified]

Interesting.

I love the idea that MN is too unimportant for politicians to bother with.

Yes, that would be why top ministers and even party leaders regularly do Q&As on MN.

Must be because no-one reads it.

[Ulver]

I should say they “offered” this service as they disband and regroup and name change whenever There is a scandal.
But still carry on doing what they do.
Psy Group had a contract with Cambridge Analytica pre Brexit so they may have taken part in “Getting Brexit Done”.
And Cummings has links to Cambridge Analytica.

[rhubarbfizzy]

I can see why parties and corporates would do this.
But there needs to be a change of law to oblige transparency.
Published list available online for public and journalists to see of the efforts and costs put in to do it or pay to get it done for :

• parties
  
• listed corporates
  

Then, for anything to do with public power, a higher level of obligation of disclosure, so ordinary members of the public can understand and keep up to date.
Otherwise, it is propaganda and misleading (like social media used to advertise without declaring it, but much worse).

I'd also hope that mumsnet, like facebook etc, has mechanisms in place to detect and delete bots and paid posters --- like banks do for their security and schools/unis now do online to cross check plagiarism.

[Ulver]

If it’s undeclared political campaigning and the costs are not declared or transparent it is indeed illegal.

[TheHoneyBadger]

Best to keep it at arms length then. It doesn’t need to be the gov/party themselves funding it but those whose financial interests are served by that party. Many ways to have the gov owe you without there being any financial trail such as would be the case with traditional donations.

[ITonyah]

I am pretty sure inferring someone is not who they say they are is against Mumsnet rules, by the way.

[Ulver]

ITonyah

I am pretty sure inferring someone is not who they say they are is against Mumsnet rules, by the way.


Why? Are you feeling persecuted?
This is a conversation about general tactics used for media influence campaigns.
Whether it’s by politicians trying to manipulate public opinion or companies trying to
Insert their product into domestic narratives.
It’s not about you or any particular individual.

[ITonyah]

You haven't, but PPs have.

[HopeMumsnet]

Hi there everyone,
We're seeing a lot of these 'you're a bot/shill etc' posts at the moment - it's hardly surprising, we're seeing it all over social media - but we expect good faith posting on Mumsnet. If you suspect otherwise, please report, do not troll hunt.
For what it's worth, ITonyah has posted on this site pretty much since its inception, so we hope that clears that particular matter up.

[ITonyah]

Thank you!

[Ulver]

“Before the GE social media was a virtue signalling echo chamber, hence the shock at the GE result and the incredulity that anyone on SM now is not a Labour supporter.”


This is the biggest crock of nonsense in this thread.
Knowing what we know about Cambridge Analytica and the source of many online bots supporting Trump, ( that have been forensically analysed) I can confidently say that this is utter rubbish.

[ITonyah]

It was certainly a huge shock to many of my friends, and to me actually. My social media was Red in tooth and claw for 2 months before the GE.

My first thought on hearing the result was "how could every body have got it so wrong??"

[Ulver]

Boris has stopped people commenting on his Social Media and there were hundreds of avatars online spreading disinformation and pushing racist tropes.
There were a lot of fake Pro Tory BAME accounts Which were stirring up hatred against Eastern European immigrants and other weird activity on SM.
Some of it was downright creepy.

[ITonyah]

I don't use Twitter. I didn't see any pro Tory stuff on my own Facebook. I'm not saying it didnt happen! But I saw far, far more Momentum/Canary stuff.

I've left FB now as the covid misinformation was awful!

[TheHoneyBadger]

Same as ITonyah ime. My Facebook feed is and was near unanimously left wing and remain. It took quite a bit of courage to stick my neck out and say that I would be voting leave as it was utterly consistent with my dislike of superstates and sense that the further power was removed from the stakeholders the less agency the latter have and less accountability the former face.

It was unthinkable that someone educated, not an oap, not racist or ignorant could be voting leave and able to articulate their reasoning as consistent with their values and longstanding political views.

People couldn’t believe it when the result was leave. I assumed that leave voters who didn’t want to fall out with friends and family, or explain how no it wasn’t racism or being a sucker for tabloid fodder, kept very quiet.

[Papatron]

If you think the government doesn't try to game the system check out Boris and his sudden revelation about his hobby of making models of London buses. That appears to have been an attempt to game the google results.

[confusedandtired99]

@Redolent did they comment on this thread? I went back to look and couldn’t find them

[ky07]

@Ulver Of course I meant overestimating. It was obvious from the context. Sorry for not proofreading a throwaway comment on a messageboard. Clearly I'm an irredeemable moron you cheeky little scrote.