Millions of children could die! Where is the outrage?!

[Mumlove5]

These lockdowns will kill more people than coronavirus, which is mild for the majority of people. Mass hysteria has taken over logic and common sense. Poor and broken economies always lead to poor health both physically and mentally, and death.

People need to stop being so shortsighted and wake-up...

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown

The head of a global partnership to end tuberculosis (TB) said she is “sickened” by research that revealed millions more people are expected to contract the disease as a result of Covid-19 restrictions.

Up to 6.3 million more people are predicted to develop TB between now and 2025 and 1.4 million more people are expected to die as cases go undiagnosed and untreated during lockdown. This will set back global efforts to end TB by five to eight years.

“The fear we have in the community is that researchers are heading towards just developing a vaccine for Covid. That’s on the agenda of everyone now and very few remain focused on the others [diseases]. We don’t have a vaccine for TB, we don’t have a vaccine for HIV, we don’t have a vaccine for malaria and out of all this, TB is the oldest. So why this reaction? I think because we are a world of idiots. What can I say?”


www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/unicef-warns-lockdown-could-kill-covid-19-model-predicts-12/

Unicef warns lockdown could kill more than Covid-19 as model predicts 1.2 million child deaths
'Indiscriminate lockdowns' are an ineffective way to control Covid and could contribute to a 45 per cent rise in child mortality

The risk of children dying from malaria, pneumonia or diarrhoea in developing countries is spiralling due to the pandemic and “far outweighs any threat presented by the coronavirus”, Unicef has warned.

In an exclusive interview Dr Stefan Peterson, chief of health at Unicef, cautioned that the blanket lockdowns imposed in many low and middle income are not an effective way to control Covid-19 and could have deadly repercussions.

“I’m concerned that lockdown measures have been copied between countries for lack of knowing what to do, rarely with any contextualisation for the local situation,” he said.

According to a stark report published in Lancet Global Health journal on Wednesday, almost 1.2 million children could die in the next six months due to the disruption to health services and food supplies caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

[hamstersarse]

I agree with your general point about the lack of critical thinking and inability for most people to do a reasonable risk assessment on Covid-19 (i.e. it is way out of proportion to the many other risks we have been navigating for years)

There are many many preventable deaths that don't even enter people's minds. My pet hate is the entirely reversible deaths from lifestyle, especially diet. This is so insane when you think about it, infectious diseases are one thing, but killing ourselves by what we eat is possibly a form of mass insanity.

Our diets kill 24,000 per year in the UK because of T2 diabetes (entirely reversible), and more broadly bad diet causes 1 in 7 deaths in the UK - heart disease, cancer etc.

Yet, bring on the pizza eh? No critical thought whatsoever, Covid has created mass disproportionate hysteria.

[Lelophants]

There are deaths in both scenarios, which is why every day the government is battling the two evils and the economy is slowly starting to reopen.

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

@1forsorrow no, not a simple fact. There is a vaccine for TB but it is not effective against pulmonary TB, the predominant form in adults.

Malaria, breezily dismissed upthread as 'treatable' kills over 400,000 people annually - around 270,000 of which are children under 5. In comparison, a tiny number of under 10s worldwide have died from covid, and a handful more from the potentially related Kawasaki disease. These deaths are tragic, but more tragic still is that instead of feeling more empathy and understanding for parents on the other side of the world facing far far higher risks of their children dying from disease than we do with coronavirus, people on here are dismissing these issues as if they don't matter.

[TatianaBis]

Please read the article and the thread people. There is no effective TB vaccine for adults over the age of 35.

[Walkaround]

I’m sure I only read last week about a breakthrough on malaria - a microbe that completely stops it ir something? Certainly didn’t sound remotely like the entire global scientific community is focusing on nothing whatsoever but Covid 19. As for TB, Mumlove5 - are you saying this is a serious issue in the UK as a result of the UK lockdown, or are you angry at the poor countries that are copying wealthier countries’ approaches to Covid 19? Or angry that UK volunteers aren’t going out to poorer countries to help there (are there any governments stopping volunteers going in if they want to?)? Or are you just professionally angry?

[Mumlove5]

@Wtfdoipick

Because there is zero evidence on how many lives have been saved. The UK government is only using mathematical modeling predictions, which are highly inaccurate. They based their decisions on flawed predictions... which is frightening. Why people don’t question this more is beyond me.

[cadburyegg]

This is interesting...

To add to the vaccine talk, I had the BCG at school but am not immune (confirmed when I worked in the nhs and had a test)

Neither of my children have had it

[DahliaDay]

Yes all the deaths due to obesity will continue.......very telling that the first fast food place to reopen here .....kfc drive thru..... has created the longest queues

[CrystalQueen]

I work in a research lab, where one of our major projects is to develop new treatments for TB.

There are drugs for TB, but you have to take them for 6 months. Imagine you have cupped your hands, and filled them with M+Ms. That's how many pills you have to take every day. Strangely this leads to huge problems with compliance, because people feel better and stop taking them, if they can afford treatment in the first place.
4000 people die every day from TB. 10 million new cases develop every year and 1.2 million people die. It is a major cause of death in HIV infected patients.
The BCG is more effective in children, because they get a different sort of infection. It's not as simple as saying "just vaccinate everyone before the age of 35" as I read upthread. There is not an effective vaccine for adults. Over time the effectiveness of vaccines change, for reasons that are not understood.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4950406/

[Mumlove5]

We mainly based our decisions on faulty models. The scaremongering media is also to blame.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/can-we-trust-covid-modelling-more-evidence-from-sweden

Gardner et al predicted that Sweden would have 82,000 Covid-19 deaths by 1 July. That implies around 1,000 deaths every day since the paper was published in mid-April. However, the total number of Swedish Covid-19 deaths at the time of writing is 3,313.

One reason why the models failed is that they – just like most countries’ politicians – underestimated how millions of people spontaneously adapt to new circumstances. They only thought in terms of lockdowns vs business as usual, but failed to consider a third option: that people engage in social distancing voluntarily when they realise lives are at stake and when authorities recommend them to do so.

And obviously, there is an argument that these models scared us into changing our behaviour and ramping up capacity, and so helped us to avoid a disaster. But they were also clearly based on faulty assumptions that would always result in absurd predictions. We know this, because both models actually assumed that it was already too late, and estimated that ICU capacity would be exceeded by around 10 times even if Sweden switched to strong mitigation.

[majesticallyawkward]

Covid has created mass disproportionate hysteria.

Exactly, some individuals have lost the ability to risk assess or apply common sense.

As mentioned on this thread, malaria, HIV, TB, obesity, T2 diabetes, lifestyle related cancers, climate change. All pose higher risks than CV but most will carry on.
Even the official guidance is nonsensical at times but we this section of individuals militantly following, or making up, 'the rules' while ignoring the other risks or dismissing them entirely because it effects someone else.

[Biscuit0110]

Please just stop with the hysteria.

[Mumlove5]

Good discussion...

www.spectator.co.uk/article/ten-reasons-to-end-the-lockdown-now

1. We don’t know if lockdown is working
   

You may be forgiven for thinking that we do. But the fact is that direct evidence for the effectiveness of lockdown in this situation is minimal, and the approach is mainly based on modelling. Many counties with very different approaches to lockdown seem to have similar curves, in so far as their different testing and recording of the virus allows meaningful comparison. Are the curves a result of our actions or are they just a manifestation of the way this virus is coming into equilibrium with its new human hosts? The curves on ships affected by the virus seem similar to the population curves too. It’s easy to make plausible-sounding arguments that what we are doing 'must' be slowing the spread. But Sweden’s model of voluntary social distancing seems equally effective, but with much lower costs.

[ChateauMargaux]

Lack of clean water is the biggest killer works wide, closely followed by poor nutrition.

[Bowerbird5]

The BCG was available since the fifties. I had it as a baby in Scotland.

[Annebronte]

Agree with you, OP.

[Dontcarewhatmyusernameis]

I’m glad there are people on here correcting the misperceptions around TB! My husband works in TB research - for a reason! It’s a huge killer and the BCG does not fix it.
Google “drug resistant TB” - an increasing issue in many parts of the world.
And see this: www.tballiance.org/news/tb-now-worlds-leading-infectious-killer
Yes - it’s the worlds leading infectious killer and the reason people never hear about is because it affects affluent countries the least.

[bettybattenburg]

The BCG vaccine hasn't been routinely given in schools for 15 years. It is still given in areas deemed to be higher risk. A lot of vaccines are now only given on an 'as required' basis - there is no longer a tetanus booster programme in England.

[Changeyname40]

But we had a reasonable risk assessment approach. It was called herd immunity.

Well that was popular wasn't it . If I remember rightly, no, it wasn't.

So we went the other side of the fence to lockdown. A clear message. Stay home.

Now everyone is moaning. But the message should have been more, you know, grey.

No, what should have happened is we acted sooner, not last minute dot com.

But we didn't. And so it was already too late to Be Sweden.

I don't know how complaining is going to change this immutable fact.

Only history will judge and it is not going to be kind that is for sure.

I am not sure of the link. Why are deaths from TB going up because of lockdown?

Anyway I agree we fucked it. 50k actual deaths. Millions more because of lockdown. Rocketing debt. Which part of this was a success?

Oh its okay, BJ told us we'd lose loved ones .

What amazes me is why we are not coming out of lockdown sooner.

It is obvious now that the problem is in care homes and in the NHS.

I get that global shortage of PPE is a problem. But why are we not just making more? Where is the program of UK wide testing centres? Where is the app? Why is Boris soooooo bad at communicating?

[LilacTree1]

“ Lockdowns are having thousands of direct deaths. If people can’t see this, then they are blinded only by Covid... which again is mild for the majority.”

They are. It’s horrendous. It’s proved a brilliant excuse for people to ditch humanity and common sense. I don’t know how we move on from here.

[slipperywhensparticus]

You say there is no proof lockdown saved lives however there is no proof it hasnt saved lives either 🤷‍♀️ absence of proof does not prove your point sadly

In my local area in my personal experience the areas that break lockdown that dont socially distance the ones where the police have been called in have had higher rates of infection than the other areas my estate is a bit of a goody two shoes estate we are currently on zero deaths for the last 20 days and we have sheltered accommodation for the elderly up here but we might have just got lucky

[scarbados]

Mumlove5 Wed 13-May-20 10:46:56

There isn’t a TB vaccine for adults. Children, yes.


AS the BCG has been given to generations of children, why do we need a vaccine for adults who had one as a child?

[YappityYapYap]

I don't get your argument OP. If people are staying inside to avoid catching and spreading coronavirus, how are they more likely to catch TB exactly? You need person to person contact to catch that too and the last time I looked, there wasn't hundreds of thousands of people in the UK infected with TB. Also, how can people catch malaria in the UK? I think you've gotten yourself into a frenzy here and you're not using logic.





Lockdown will help reduce all spreading of contagious diseases but you're using those as examples which is dim. You should be more outraged that non contagious diseases such as cancer, heart disease, lung disease etc will go unchecked and lead to more deaths. Not citing diseases that aren't even present in the UK or will be drastically reduced to the lack of ability to spread. I actually laughed a bit at this, so stupid

[Mumlove5]

@Annebronte

Thank you. I’m praying people will awake from these panic induced lockdowns.

Counter narratives have been out there but are unwelcome due to the hysteria and groupthink that is going on. Maybe it’s guilt as well? I don’t know.

I think it’s important to point out that this is the first time in history that we have counted and watched every single death. Of course people are scared out of their wits end!
Hence this: www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

And there is always the question... how are these deaths behind recorded? Did they die with covid-19 or from covid-19?

[Sarahlou63]

TB, malaria, HIV have all been around for decades and there are tests and treatments. Individual countries are responsible for the control and treatment of the diseases.

CV has been around for a maximum of 6 months and is global. There are no effective treatments, no vaccines and no reliable mass testing. Notice the difference?