Millions of children could die! Where is the outrage?!

[Mumlove5]

These lockdowns will kill more people than coronavirus, which is mild for the majority of people. Mass hysteria has taken over logic and common sense. Poor and broken economies always lead to poor health both physically and mentally, and death.

People need to stop being so shortsighted and wake-up...

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown

The head of a global partnership to end tuberculosis (TB) said she is “sickened” by research that revealed millions more people are expected to contract the disease as a result of Covid-19 restrictions.

Up to 6.3 million more people are predicted to develop TB between now and 2025 and 1.4 million more people are expected to die as cases go undiagnosed and untreated during lockdown. This will set back global efforts to end TB by five to eight years.

“The fear we have in the community is that researchers are heading towards just developing a vaccine for Covid. That’s on the agenda of everyone now and very few remain focused on the others [diseases]. We don’t have a vaccine for TB, we don’t have a vaccine for HIV, we don’t have a vaccine for malaria and out of all this, TB is the oldest. So why this reaction? I think because we are a world of idiots. What can I say?”


www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/unicef-warns-lockdown-could-kill-covid-19-model-predicts-12/

Unicef warns lockdown could kill more than Covid-19 as model predicts 1.2 million child deaths
'Indiscriminate lockdowns' are an ineffective way to control Covid and could contribute to a 45 per cent rise in child mortality

The risk of children dying from malaria, pneumonia or diarrhoea in developing countries is spiralling due to the pandemic and “far outweighs any threat presented by the coronavirus”, Unicef has warned.

In an exclusive interview Dr Stefan Peterson, chief of health at Unicef, cautioned that the blanket lockdowns imposed in many low and middle income are not an effective way to control Covid-19 and could have deadly repercussions.

“I’m concerned that lockdown measures have been copied between countries for lack of knowing what to do, rarely with any contextualisation for the local situation,” he said.

According to a stark report published in Lancet Global Health journal on Wednesday, almost 1.2 million children could die in the next six months due to the disruption to health services and food supplies caused by the coronavirus pandemic.

[EarlGreywithLemon]

@hamstersarse, read the Covid week 7 threads on here. There are so many fit, healthy young people out there who are finding this anything but mild. We have no handle on how many, because until recently we only took people to hospital when blue in the face.
On China and Russia, locking down is hurting their economies anyway. Neither is afraid to ruffle international feathers and have done so repeatedly in the past. US’ included.
What about Spain, Italy, France, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, the Eastern European countries? Is everyone in the grips of the largest collective delusion in history?

[LastTrainEast]

Mumlove5 We don't have an 'Indiscriminate lockdown' and ending our lockdown would not help other countries. So does that mean you're only bringing up their suffering to suit your own personal agenda?

"1.2 million children could die in the next six months due to the disruption to health services and food supplies caused by the coronavirus pandemic" we had a lockdown to prevent disruption to health services and food supplies and it worked.

[hamstersarse]

@earlgreywithlemon

It really is a mild disease for the majority. I don't know where you are getting your information from.

It is very bad if you are over 80 and have co-morbidities.

Why did China and Russia shut down? I think your answer lies ironically enough, in world economics. Being blamed for the spread of a virus would hurt their economies, and the rest of the world followed this political stance. Have you seen how Trump has been referring to China throughout? Do you see how China don't want to ruin the trade with the US?

[Bumpitybumper]

People with health conditions shouldn't be othered when they die of COVID
No, but I do think that reporting should be clear both in terms of the demographics of those affected and the likely impact that contracting the virus has had on their realistic life expectancy. Somebody dying at age thirty with a life expectancy of 80+ has obviously lost out on more years of life than an elderly person in a care home where people only live for around two years on average anyway.

How much would people be prepared to alter their lives, impact the economy and potentially risk elements of their own physical and mental health in order to make sure those who are almost at the end of their natural lifespan get an additional few years? Our approach to the seasonal flu would suggest that we as a society have decided that lockdown isn't warranted as a response to a virus that kills thousands of predominantly old or vulnerable people each year. Alternatively I imagine people would be prepared to do much more if they believed victims were losing decades of their lives as a result of the virus.

[EarlGreywithLemon]

@Covid... is mild for the majority
We have no idea OP. We aren’t testing enough and aren’t taking enough people to hospital. We have no idea of the long term side effects. Also, medically mild is not mild to you and me. It just means you’re not in ITU.
As a previous poster pointed out- do you really think China and Russia would have shut down over a mild bug? Not to mention the rest of the world?

[Stuckforthefourthtime]

@GrumpyHoonMain
There is NOT a TB vaccine that works well in adults, most specifically because BCG is not effective against pulmonary TB, the main adult issue. Here is the NHS page, if you don't trust the very informative Bill Gates one above
www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/bcg-tuberculosis-tb-vaccine/

Malaria treatment is not currently being effective in the practical sense of being able to be rolled out where it is most needed - as suggested by the 400,000 deaths each year, the majority of which are children under 5.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

1. There is a TB vaccine. The UK even provides it at birth if you have links to areas where there is a lot of TB. DS got it as DH is Indian and goes back regularly.
   
2. There is a Malaria vaccine but it is prioritized where it’s needed most because the treatment for it is fairly effective.
   
3. There are a number of HIV vaccines that work to an extent but haven’t yet been provided regulatory approval in the USA and so can’t be made in bulk. Again the treatment is so effective that HIV can go into complete remission - the life expectancy for someone with HIV now is probably longer than someone with diabetes.

[BigChocFrenzy]

How many people would sacrifice their partner, even their parent, to save an unknown child, whether in the UK or Africa ?

Hell, most people won't even put a fiver in the collection box

[BigChocFrenzy]

The hysteria about lockdown is pointless

• some people claiming that others who disagree are "killing millions"

whether that is by relaxing lockdown in June, or by not having a Tardis to go back to March and prevent lockdown

The government will relax lockdown in stages as their 5 conditions are met
with advice from Whitty and Vallance

No hysteria from either side of this argument will change their timetable

[Coffeecak3]

@DressingGownofDoom I think it depends on a person's circumstances.
If a person didn't have children for example, then a parental or spousal death may be the most tragic thing that happens to them especially if they're relatively young adults.
We cannot judge other people's tragedies.

[BigChocFrenzy]

"Are there genuinely people who think that the death of an adult, let alone an elderly adult, is just as tragic as the death of a child? "

No
but the death of an adult, "let alone an elderly adult" still matters, can't just be waved away
People with health conditions shouldn't be othered when they die of COVID

You aren't allowed to bump off granny because she's using up your inheritance

There is a big difference between doing nothing, letting the eldderly and the vulnerable die off in large numbers
vs
having a lockdown, released gradually, to balance lives vs economy

Most countries have opted for this balance

[Hellohello2020]

Sorry, wrong thread

[Hellohello2020]

I am surprised tb is an issue as I'm a radiographer and at the beggining of the lockdown when we were getting hardly any out patient X-rays, the few we seemed to have were for tb or query tb.

[BigChocFrenzy]

Western countries have a large minority of people with "comorbidities" like T2, COPD, high BP etc
and a huge elderly population,
all more vulnerable to COVID - and who vote in elections

Developing countries are quite a different case:

they have a v young average age in the 20s,
just 17-18 in some African countries after the dreadful AIDS carnage there.

So imo lockdown there is not useful - it's more protecting the tiny ruling elite and small mc,
who are the only groups there with a significant number of over-60s or surviving with longterm health conditions.

[MeadowHay]

@DressingGownofDoom of course not. PP claiming that are being disingenuous. They're just whipped up in a hysterical frenzy.

[DressingGownofDoom]

Are there genuinely people who think that the death of an adult, let alone an elderly adult, is just as tragic as the death of a child?

[BigChocFrenzy]

(paywall) Inside No. 10 How Boris Johnson changed his priorities: save lives first, and then salvage the economy

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb

At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy.

Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.

At the Sage meeting on March 12, a moment now dubbed the “Domoscene conversion”,

Cummings changed his mind.
In this “penny-drop moment”, he realised he had helped set a course for catastrophe.

Until this point, the rise in British infections had been below the European average.
Now they were above it and on course to emulate Italy, where the picture was bleak.

A minister said: “Seeing what was happening in Italy was the galvanising force across government.”

By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown.

“Dominic himself had a conversion,”
a senior Tory said.

“He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’,
to
‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

Cummings had a “meeting of minds” with Matt Hancock, the health secretary,
who wanted stronger action to prevent NHS hospitals being swamped.
....
Johnson had also been queasy about the previous original approach.

Boris hated the language of ‘herd immunity’ because it implied that it was OK for people to die,”
a senior source said.

“Matt hated the language because it implied we had given up.*
You’ve got to fight.”
.....
But when Johnson gathered his key advisers in the cabinet room at 9.15am last Saturday
there was unanimity.

Whitty and Vallance explained that Britain had been four weeks behind Italy “and now we are closer”.

[BigChocFrenzy]

The hysteria is in the OP screaming about millions of children dying because of lockdown

During lockdown, deaths of children in the UK have actually been lower than normal for the time of year

We need to restart the economy as soon as the government's 5 tests have been satisfied,
but
hysterical OPs about millions dying just turn people OFF

[Coffeecak3]

Most people over 35 in the UK have had the vaccine for TB. If necessary I'm sure the govt could bring it in again for teens.

[BigChocFrenzy]

"The imperial college model that predicted 500k deaths if we did nothing has been debunked."

The UK -and the world - did NOT lockdown because of a maths model from a British College.

The Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty did simple multiplication to estimate his "reasonable worst case":

80% infected in a population of 67 million with up to 1% death rate
which came to about ½ million deaths

He was using data from Italy, which was what scared most of Europe into locking down

No responsible government can ignore their CMO warning about ½ million deaths
and just gamble that it won't happen

[majesticallyawkward]

People need to stay inside or they’ll be staying in a wooden box six feet under!

Well, actually for most that's not the case. Covid-19 has a relatively low mortality rate. This is exactly the type of hysteria that isn't needed.

[DahliaDay]

@Bumpitybumper I don’t call the over 60 age group very elderly!!!!

If we could do it for kids we should do it for other age groups!

[Oneliner]

OP - do you work in a furloughed industry per chance?

[MeridasWisp]

Malaria, breezily dismissed upthread as 'treatable' kills over 400,000 people annually - around 270,000 of which are children under 5. In comparison, a tiny number of under 10s worldwide have died from covid, and a handful more from the potentially related Kawasaki disease. These deaths are tragic, but more tragic still is that instead of feeling more empathy and understanding for parents on the other side of the world facing far far higher risks of their children dying from disease than we do with coronavirus, people on here are dismissing these issues as if they don't matter.

This is true.

BCG vaccination offers partial protection against TB, and is most effective in babies and only confers a small degree of benefit in adults. It's very concerning that TB rates are expected to rise in developing countries as TB is very difficult to treat, involving taking multiple drugs daily for many months, and multi-drug resistant TB that is resistant to these drugs is gaining traction.

Covid is not a serious illness in most people.

In those particularly at risk, still most survive- China reported that 80% of over 85s recover from covid infection - amazing really, considering that MERS has I think a 30% mortality rate, that even in the high risk groups most recover from covid.

For everyone saying "a life is a life, why value the lives of children over the elderly....", the only certainty of life is death - we will all die at some point - medicine is concerned with trying to redress the balance of those who may die earlier than they should, and relieve suffering. So someone dying age 5 is a greater tragedy to society than someone dying age 95.

We absolutely should take covid seriously, and I was very glad that we locked down when we did. But developing countries may have greater priorities than covid, and locking down may do more harm than good there. And we should all be wary of the harms of lockdown too and balance these against covid.

[YounghillKang]

Not only that, mental health is also on decline. The US is predicting 75k thousand deaths from suicide!
www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/health/coronavirus-deaths-of-despair/index.html

Again, OP your interpretation of the articles you’re citing is either woefully or wilfully partial. The issues in the CCN article link in part to the lack of decent public, rather than private, healthcare and financial support for US citizens, this is a political issue stemming in no small part from the lack of adequate support systems in that country. This is as much to do with Trump’s policies as it is directly linked to lockdown policies.

And as for linking articles, we can all do that, what about these for starters?

www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/government-s-road-map-out-of-lockdown-is-too-fast-too-confusing-and-too-risky-says-bma

Covid-19: England plan to ease lockdown is “confusing” and “risky,” say doctors
www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1877

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-who/who-warns-against-rushed-end-to-coronavirus-lockdowns-idUKKBN22I2E9

www.afp.com/en/news/15/top-us-virus-expert-warns-premature-exit-lockdown-doc-1rf2ff4

www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/who-warns-that-coronavirus-cases-have-jumped-in-countries-that-eased-lockdowns.html

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/tories-lockdown-social-distancing-testing-second-wave-coronavirus