British death toll highest in Europe

[SistemaAddict]

Covid-19: British death toll now highest in Europe
via The Irish Times
www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/covid-19-british-death-toll-now-highest-in-europe-1.4245336

This has made me so sad and angry. Why are we the worst? Why did we not learn from other countries and why do so many people (on here at least) think that we can get back to relative normal now?

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

As I said Baseline there are all sorts of other confounding factors that allow statistics to provide any answer anyone cares to look for. I wasn't suggesting our death rate is better or wrose than elsewhere simply because, we just don't know!

We don't know what data is being collected, collated, published*
We don't know how the different reactions changed the course of infections
We don't know what will happen when lockdowns are lifted
We don't know much at all it seems, once you start listing shit we don't know

*For example, one of the world counters doesn't include all of the more recent published UK data and yet is used to show just how 'bad' we are. The lack of dependable stats is very perplexing and causes all sorts of alarm

[TheCanterburyWhales]

The UK death % X those tested positive also puts the UK in the top 2.

Belgium's figures included carehomes and deaths in the community from the outset. As did France iirc.

Italy's figures were high, especially when you consider that much of the country has remained largely unaffected. The mistakes Italy made were to not take it seriously, to continue the ski season, to prioritise things like Milan fashion week and various football matches over the then fairly small number of cases. The central govt didn't get involved until, for Lombardia, it was too late.

Other countries thankfully having seen Italy (and Spain) be the canaries sent into the mines, acted more swiftly and decisively, and lived were saved.

Oh. Hang on a sec.....

[TheCanterburyWhales]

Well, comparing the stats to see what could be done better next time, and which countries actions led to a smaller death total is pretty handy really.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Of course RoI's deaths are small compared to the UK, for example, as their population is less than that of London. That's without taking into account population density.

Scotland too! Very low population density which is surely having a great effect on their death toll!

[DippyAvocado]

Belgium's statistics include all care home deaths and they have been including deaths where Covid is only suspected in their data too. This will make their death rate per million appear higher than ours.

Comparison by excess deaths is likely to the most accurate way of comparing death rate between countries.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Well, comparing the stats to see what could be done better next time, and which countries actions led to a smaller death total is pretty handy really. Next time, yes!

But not immediately.

God help any politician on charge who doesn't react well next time.

We would definitely be expecting a response more along the lines of South Korea next time! From the government and ourselves!

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Should we make a list of confounding factors and post it on every one of these threads??

[GoatyGoatyMingeMinge]

Well, comparing the stats to see what could be done better next time, and which countries actions led to a smaller death total is pretty handy really.

All these figures tell us is that it helps to have a smaller population. Then less people will die. We could certainly plan our actions around this insight. Perhaps a programme of extermination prior to any subsequent pandemics would be an idea?

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

now now Goaty

You know full well that we are having an extermination programme, right now.

Or is it just time to change the batteries in the birds?

I forget which conspiracy I am believing today!

[TheCanterburyWhales]

Germany seemed to do OK by testing, tracing and treating rather than resorting to extermination Goat.

[weepingwillow22]

Worldometer gives deaths per million population. On that basis the uk is ranked 4th worst globally for deaths (ignoring san marino and andorra) with 423 deaths per million behind belgium's 692, spain's 548 and italy's 481. However given our curve is a couple of weeks behind we will overtake them soon.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

I'm interested in the German numbers. Cannot get my head round them, they don't seem logical somehow.

I know they had faster access to tests and PPE, initially. The benefit of having a manufacturing base!

I know that the age of those infected was lower in Germany, initially

I know their medical system is private and so responded differently, especially with government backing and funding.

But they had a lower mortality rate than Sth Korea at one point!

But they took patients from France, Spain and Italy too!!

Amazing repsonse. One every country has to learn from!

[EasternDailyStress]

Interesting the BBC haven't covered this story. Anyone would think they're a mouthpiece for the government.

[lunar1]

Do we know if the same criteria is being used in different countries? If we are now including unconfirmed cases, are all the other countries already doing that?

[nether]

Population density will be a factor

[Clavinova]

We would definitely be expecting a response more along the lines of South Korea next time! From the government and ourselves!

"The South Korean government has decided that people who defy quarantine measures will have to wear special electronic wristbands. The move is meant to help contain the coronavirus, although some lawyers have raised concerns about human rights violations."

"The government has assumed a "zero tolerance" stance for people defying quarantine. A person who breaks the stay-at-home orders can be sentenced to a year in prison or fined 10 million won ($8,217). Foreign violators will be deported."

asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/South-Korea-to-adopt-wristbands-for-quarantine-violators2

[Clavinova]

Worldometer gives deaths per million population. On that basis the uk is ranked 4th worst globally for deaths (ignoring san marino and andorra) with 423 deaths per million behind belgium's 692, spain's 548 and italy's 481.

And Ireland is ranked 8th on that basis. Not great either.

[MarshaBradyo]

The pp re South Korea is an important distinction. Part of their success is due to elements we’d not tolerate.

If we want to do better next time Taiwan set up central systems before the pandemic occurred.

Next time I wonder what the split would be between I’ll take a NZ version (would it work here?) or Swedish (ditto would it work). Probably not for both.

[MarshaBradyo]

The biggest change I’d like to see is better triage and early admission.

[user1468953505]

We don't need hindsight: it was clear at the time that the UK government was pursuing a dangerous and reckless path.

I know very little about disease control but even I knew 'herd immunity' without a vaccine is madness.

I took my kids out of school a week before they closed but it was obvious from other countries what was happening.

Our government responded to people and businesses making their own decisions; they simply did not lead on this - just reacted.

[Bobbybobbins]

@user1468953505

Totally agree with you. Too little too late.

[KeepWashingThoseHands]

@user1468953505

Given Sweden (on the surface) hasn't followed a lockdown as we have and their leading epidemiologist is frequently citing herd immunity, how do you account for the differences in infection and deaths between the countries?

The UK govt may latterly be proven to have done the 'wrong' thing but seems to me it's way more complex than a number comparison at this stage to determine that.

[thatgingergirl]

It is all deflection reporting. The Irish press could report on Ireland's deaths per million being over twice that of Portugal's, or Austria's, or Denmark's or Germany's .........

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

We can learn from all government and population responses, whether we agree with them or not!

[LilacTree1]

does anyone know, true or false - I heard something about Italy's figures being hospital deaths and not including care home deaths?