AIBU to think in the future we will look back on this and think this was such a big overreaction?

[JUSTJUDY10101]

Preparing myself to get flamed for this.
Isn't it true that the majority of us will get mild symptoms and not even notice we really had it?
Yes hundreds of people are dying a day from it and yes they are not just numbers, but are they dying 'of' it or 'with' it?

People.die everyday, why have we locked down for this but we never did for the swine flu?

Is it worth ruining the economy for?

I just want other thoughts incase i'm just being stupid

@SabrinaTheTeenageBitch I read it a week of two ago so it may be out of date. I’m not sure what they used to make the calculation but it is interesting. 13 years is a long time to lose imo. In the last thirteen years I’ve done a lot. I can understand that some people are ready to die but with an average of 13 years left I’d imagine most weren’t.

Vdb. Could you link to the carehome study please?

I really hope one positive to come out of this is an awareness and empathy for those who are permanently housebound. This isn't temporary for them. It's their life. And it's really rather offensive to suggest that's not a life worth living.

With moderm technology we have opportunities for contact with family and friends people never had in the past. Many people live in different countries to their families and it's not always a choice. They can't see them frequently in person but they stay in touch through the wonders of technology.

The permanently housebound can't get out ever. We can during lockdown - for exercise or to the shops or to provide essential care to someone vulnerable or to go to work if it can't be done from home. The housebound live a far more isolated life than we are experiencing in our semi lockdown. Were not confined to our homes. Our lockdown isn't like the one many other countries put in place.

For those with genuine MH struggles over this. There are things you can do to mitigate feelings of isolation. Like I suggested yesterday you could apply for one of the many out of work jobs going, perhaps temp cover in care homes (for the many off sick regular staff) as that's a social job where you'd be around lots of people. Or volunteer to help the many vulnerable.

Additionally urgent MH care does count as essential work. If people aren't receiving support something's gone wrong but it's nothing to do with lockdown. Possibly it's because of the pandemic. Many of the MH staff might be off sick with Covid.

It will tell you what us scientists have been saying since January

What have you been saying since January @DoubleTweenQueen?

And for those who are immunocompromised, who likely live with the fear all of the time.

As for the nightingale hospitals not being needed. Well no, not if we don't treat patients who urgently need treatment. That's the major but little talked about scandal.

We have nearly 30,000 deaths (at least) from Covid. Including too many HCPs, and a disproportionately high number of men, people over 50, and the BAME community. Our death rate is one of the highest in the world. Higher than many poorer countries, who unlike us are doing all they can to save lives. The US has more deaths but a much lower number per million population.

A major cause of our extremely high death rate is our failure to give timely treatment. Early treatment with oxygen and antivirals (and antibiotics to prevent secondary infections) has significantly lowered the death rates on other countries, including those with fairly high number of cases.

We're refusing hospital treatment to patients and they're dying at home or only admitted at a stage when survival is less likely.

We're told the nightingale had to turn away desperately ill patients from other struggling hospitals because of lack of staff. Meanwhile we have HCP posting on MN about having no work to do.

Why haven't we sent the self described thumb twiddling HCP to the harder hit parts of the country? Alternatively, if the nightingales aren't equipped for some treatments, why haven't we followed suit of Germany and transferred patients from hard hit areas to hospitals in quieter parts of the country.

We should note that the countries starting to ease their lockdowns not only (with a few exceptions) locked down sooner and stricter than us, but they are treating patients earlier.

If we lift our lockdown too soon, we will see devastating loss of life and immense economic devastation.

If we want to safely ease lockdown (I'm sure that's what we all want) we need to start treating patients. And I mean early treatment when chances of survival are fairly good.

We also need to as a matter of urgency implement some form of checks and quarantine at our airports. It rather makes a mockery of lockdown to continue receiving non essential flights daily with no measures whatsoever in place.

If you look up the Black Death and various other pandemics throughout history, it'll put this in context a little. Although uring the Black Death people didn't knock about the planet in aeroplanes, obviously, or travel as far to get to work. Many people never even left their village which probably saved at least one wider locality (look up Eyam if you've not heard of it already).

Or even look at the figures for the 1918 flu which is arguably a bit more comparable.

What we have got, this time round, is much better knowledge of science and hygiene overall, clean water, and some countries, overall, started from a position of relative health, wealth and fitness. Plus the whole communications system. Though that's turning out to be a double-edged sword.

That's not to say that there aren't millions of individuals who are going to be affected in ways we can't see yet by this. I know you can't have an economy without an ecology, and it's encouraging to see the environment recovering a little, even if it will probably only be temporary, but the effects on our modern civilisation overall are likely to be beyond grim. Though in the long term humanity is astonishingly resilient.

Now that COVID-19 has reached poorer countries in the Southern Hemisphere, though, their health systems are likely to be overwhelmed. And many of them are already starting from a position of malnutrition and utter poverty.

So I don't think we'll look back and see it as an over-reaction; I think we'll look back and wish we'd taken action sooner than we did. We'll certainly wish, in the UK, US, and Australia in particular (though other places too) that our politicians had listened to the scientists and medics more and to spin doctors and charlatans a little less. And I can't help feeling we're just lucky this round didn't coincide with winter flu.

*during not uring. Gah. Oh, for an edit button. Or even a spellcheck!

we can never say if we overreacted but we'd know for sure if we under reacted

I personally would prefer to die in the capable of hands of doctors and nurses that tried hard to save me first and sedating me so I didn't know what was happening than die gasping for breath as my body shuts down in agony. Hundreds of thousands of people would have died the second way if we did not take action. That's cruel, very cruel

I hope so! But I'd rather look back and think I'd taken too many precautions than regret not having taken enough. As it stands, I'm protecting my medically vulnerable DD and am happy with what I'm doing.

From what I understand OP 'mild symptoms' means being laid up in bed for a fortnight with your lungs feeling like they are on fire.

I agree that statistically most people won't die of it but the mild symptoms would really frightening (gasping for breath) and there can be ongoing health problems we don't even know about yet.

PPs comparing deaths from corona virus with deaths from things like circulatory disease and cancer - it's not the same thing is it - you can't 'catch' cancer or heart disease or pass them on to others .

TheCanterburyWhales
www.researchgate.net/publication/51014346_Length_of_Stay_in_Care_Homes

Personally, when people refer to mild symptoms they are not talking about those who have to take to their beds at all.....I do not consider that mild. I know those who tested positive who had no idea at all they had it. I have 2 colleagues who lost taste and smell but otherwise perfectly fine. That is what I would consider mild. Just because you were not in hospital does not mean you had a mild dose!

Isn't it more of an "I'm all right Jack" kind of deliberate under-reaction?

Some people want their normal lives back so hundreds of deaths a day every day has to be minimised and explained away.

And they'd rather we all shut up about it to to be honest.

They're not dying. They're not being widowed, They're not in the 38% of us that have pre-existing conditions. Their children still have grandparents.

So they'd rather not be bothered with hearing about it.

@Querlouse
I think lack of PPE has been an issue but I don't blame the government for that.

Why not? The PPE stockpile is absolutely the government’s responsibility. Trusts aren’t funded to stockpile PPE.

No I don't think this is an overreaction. I know several people who have been hospitalised and a family member has died. If we hadn't locked down it would be many more. Calling it an overreaction feels like your belittling the lives of those who are at risk, and the lives of those who have been saved and lost. It sounds very cruel.

I understand the effect on mental health and I hope they will start to ease lockdown rules in a way that can support that. Going forward, there will need to be changes as most people's anxieties are heightened and the government will need to ensure that people are supported.

But I for one am so glad we locked down and chose people's lives over the economy.

So the research about carehomes is 9 years old and only covers Bupa homes? And points out Bupa residents tend to be more frail upon entering the homes than the "average" carehome resident.

I thought the figure was strange.

Thanks.

In future, we will look back on this to ask why the fuck did we think we were so special that we didn't need to go into lockdown earlier.

I think many people are thinking they will look back at Covid 19 and lockdown as the most historically significant event in their lifetime.

However, I can't help thinking this is just the beginning of a new era of world changing events, whether that's further pandemics, resource wars or climate related instability. Despite the huge economic fallout of this, I think Covid 19 will be remembered as the beginning of a long chain of 'global events' in the 21st century - so overreaction no, but naivety about it's significance or 'uniqueness' in light of the trajectory we're all on - yes.

Like a pp i swing between being terrified and feeling like it's all blown out of proportion. MN is weird because it's somewhere were virtually nobody is directly affected, it seems. I suppose the middle class bubble label was accurate. The area i grew up in was very mixed, very wc and has been devastated by the sounds of things. But very few mners living round there i guess.

Despite the huge economic fallout of this, I think Covid 19 will be remembered as the beginning of a long chain of 'global events' in the 21st century - so overreaction no, but naivety about it's significance or 'uniqueness' in light of the trajectory we're all on - yes.

This. It’s a game changer. There will be a second peak of Covid-19. The only question is whether we’ll be able to keep it to a level that will not be catastrophic for the NHS, and by extension for everyone.

I guess the nhs will just decide who dies and who doesn't. They have capacity now and know what's coming. We have to put our trust in them. It's all we can do if there's a second wave. There might not be! Nobody knows.