NHS Nightingale Harrogate closes

[pocketem]

Nightingale Harrogate, which was opened by Captain Tom Moore just last week, has now been closed due to a lack of patients. Staff that had been seconded to work there have been sent back to their usual workplaces and told that they will not be needed for at least a fortnight, and thereafter will be given at least 4 days notice if the hospital is to re-open. Capacity in the major ICUs in the region is still well over demand with around 20-25% of critical care beds empty, following the expansion of beds last month.

[Ginfordinner]

Like an emergency defibrillator, a Nightgale hospital is something that’s a really good resource to have but that you’d really rather not have to use

I agree with this ^^ as well. Sadly, the Nightingale hospitals may still be needed. I have a doctor friend who had already said he thought the Harrogate one would not be used.

[Rabblemum]

I’m suspicious, I get the feeling there are fewer patients than expected because people have been dying in care homes.Also new hospitals, great PR.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

Kazzyhoward

Many areas of the NHS are still working. We have to work differently.

Getting back to normal is not an option at the moment. Even in services that have drastically changed start dealing with more routine work it will not be as normal as patients not contracting covid or should they have covid managing there is potentially no exposure to others is priority along with treatment

There’s is no normal for sometime

[bananafish]

It’s contingency planning. Many of the Nightingales are going to be reconfigured for other care needs e.g. step down beds, as we come out of this phase and start to resume more normal healthcare business. It s a Good Thing that we have more capacity now, no? Especially as we are going to have to catch up quickly on the routine healthcare that has been postponed.

[Humphriescushion]

That is my point though, i feel we do/did need many more beds to be filled.

[Delatron]

Yep, maybe have a look at what Germany are doing. We may have capacity but we still have an awful death rate. We thought Italy and Spain had a high death rate due to no capacity.

So maybe we are doing something wrong eh? Use the empty hospitals and get people in earlier, for monitoring and oxygen. Whilst our death rate remains high we are still doing something failing with our care. We are not getting people in early enough.

[MabelMoo23]

Those saying the Nightingale Hospitals will be around for 18 months - I don’t see how that’s possible. These aren’t just empty unused warehouses. These are businesses, Excel, the NEC and Harrogate, all functioning conferences centres / exhibition centres.

Whilst I know mass gatherings can’t happen at the moment, they will at some point, these places can’t be closed for 18 months. The NEC alone supports 29,000 jobs in the local area, it’s one of Birmingham’s biggest employers

Excel attracts huge conferences and events. They can’t be closed for 18 months. Events are worth £70bn to the UK economy- these aren’t just empty buildings.

I absolutely appreciate why they are needed and god forbid demands means they are needed. But you just can’t destroy an entire industry to leave field hospitals open for 18 months

[Mumlove5]

It’s good news that the nightingale hospitals haven’t been used except by a few patients.

The hospitals always had way more than enough capacity. I wish the media/government would tell us this to calm people’s fears.

Article below during/right after the peak...

www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/nhs-hospitals-have-four-times-more-empty-beds-than-normal/7027392.article

Tens of thousands of NHS hospital beds remain unoccupied amid the coronavirus crisis — about four times the normal number — due to huge ongoing efforts to free up space, and a slowdown in admissions from other causes.

[MeadowHay]

Someone said upthread that they can be kept as covid hospitals so the staff can return to their normal duties in other hospitals so the NHS can get back to normal. Er, with what staff? If the staff go back to their normal hospitals to continue usual NHS treatment, what staff will there be left to care for covid patients? Something will have to give somewhere, and in reality that means quality of care in all areas will decline due to less staffing, longer and longer waiting lists, a vicious circle where more and more staff burn out and leave the professions or go on long term sick leave with the mental health implications of being so overworked, etc. Doctors who came out of retirement to help with the pandemic aren't going to be working FT for years on end to help, are they?

[justanotherneighinparadise]

Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t.

[EnthusiasmIsDisturbed]

Delatron I would like to see earlier admission too I think this is key along with early testing and tracing (I think we have missed the boat on getting on top of tracing but we could still use it effectively)

Mild symptoms for many are not what anyone would consider mild in normal circumstances. Medical attention is needed oxygen on hand should it be needed and constant medical observation

This is what I hope more shall have now we are over the first wave and have peaked and not needed so many staff in icu

[CrazyToast]

@Noeuf All this disruption was to create exactly this situation----big hospitals not needed! It means that lockdown has slowed bad cases enough that things haven't gotten as bad as the could. But it was necessary to prepare to save lives if things did get even worse.

Full Nightingales) has not happened, not because lockdown and preparation is a waste of time. It hasn't happened because we acted.

[pocketem]

These are businesses, Excel, the NEC and Harrogate, all functioning conferences centres / exhibition centres. Whilst I know mass gatherings can’t happen at the moment, they will at some point, these places can’t be closed for 18 months.

Mass gatherings such as conferences and concerts will be the amongst the last of the lockdown measures to be lifted. By the time we are at the stage of allowing huge gatherings again, the Nightingales will no longer be needed

[Lily193]

The hospitals always had way more than enough capacity. I wish the media/government would tell us this to calm people’s fears.

I think they did - I definitely saw in the last few days that we hadn't even reached 60% of total NHS capacity at the height of the peak.

[Yellowbutterfly1]

Have we actually just had the 2nd wave?
With so many people saying that they had typical Coronavirus symptoms from as easy as last autumn, maybe what we have now is actually the 2nd wave.

[PenfoldsFive]

What is the barrier to moving all Covid patients from hospitals (presuming they are well enough to be moved) and care homes, and putting them all into Nightingales? Is it staffing levels?

People are dying now, no point keeping vast numbers of beds open, for... what?

[PenfoldsFive]

Posted too soon. Obviously I'm not in the know, so that's not meant as a snarky question.

[VettiyaIruken]

When you honestly don't know how bad things will get, it is sensible to prepare for the worst while hoping for the best.
It is great that the hospital is not needed but how awful would it have been had it been needed but not there? I can't believe anyone could complain that a worst case scenario provision didn't turn out to be needed.

[Humphriescushion]

I agree that the hosptials have not reached capacity and unfortunately i do not see that only having 60 percent capacity as a good thing, the death rate is way too high and it appears that more should be hospital or have been admitted earlier ( no i dont want to see the nhs swamped)

[reesewithoutaspoon]

The capacity was created at the expense of other services. Our ICU was trebled. that was achieved by commandeering all possible spaces that had piped oxygen/air and power points that you could make function as a basic ICU area. By redeploying staff from wards/theatres/clinics to nurse ICU patients with supervision from ICU nurses. We had dermatologists and surgeons assisting on the ward to help prone patients.childrens nurses taking adult patients.
While it trebled our available capacity. It decimated other services.
The NHS coped at the expense of other areas.
That 60% was 60% of the increased capacity, not 60% of our existing service. Its not sustainable long term as 60% of increased capacity for us was still double our normal capacity

[user2323232323]

The private hospital where my DS works has been empty since the NHS bought all the beds.

No patients sent there at all.

[pocketem]

The hospitals always had way more than enough capacity. I wish the media/ government would tell us this to calm people’s fears.
They have told us that, repeatedly. Jenny Harries said it again on her last press conference, that at no time has the NHS been close to capacity for covid patients. What they forget to mention is that the capacity was expanded by cancelling all routine NHS work. This is from the Dean of the Faculty of Intensive Medicine:

[Sameold2020]

Mass gatherings such as conferences and concerts will be the amongst the last of the lockdown measures to be lifted

Remember not so long ago we were told football matches, concerts etc posed hardly any threat?

[lightyearsahead]

What wonderful news, we don't have enough very very sick people that need it. Lets hope it has been a complete waste.

I would like to see cancer treatment started again. It is keeping everyone safe from the virus that is the challenge if this is to resume.

[WhyCantIThinkOfAGoodOne]

It would be fairly catastrophic if despite the lockdown we still needed these extra facilities. The issue will be what happens when restrictions begin to be lifted. NO one is more critical of our government than me but we're dealing with an incredibly new and unprecedented situation - so to expect those in power to be able to predict with absolute accuracy what the requirements will be at any one moment is ludicrous. Obviously there'll be smart arses on the internet that can smugly proclaim that it was obvious that XYZ would happen but these people are scientifically illiterate morons.