How long can we carry on like this for?

[Pseudosudocrem]

Anyone else starting to wonder just how long we can carry on like this before everything irrevocably falls apart?

How will we ever recover as a country?

[Inkpaperstars]

Shielding is not compulsory as far as I know. So once restrictions are loosened people will be able to make individual decisions and go back to work as soon as non shielded people if they choose too. I think...correct me if I'm wrong.

Re the economy...what would have happened to it without a lockdown? Based on projections of deaths growing exponentially, how would it have played out?

[thewinkingprawn]

If this carries on the NHS will be crippled anyway - what will we fund it with in a recession/depression? I think (although I thought furlough would not be offered past end of may so who am I to say 😀) that in June we will start getting everyone who can back to it (including schools) and those who are shielded may be given a bit longer but not months on end. Eventually we’ll just have to take sensible precautions (Washington g hands etc). I would actually be interested to hear from people who are shielding as to what they really want to happen. As a PP posted, their shielded friend wants to get back to it ASAP. It’s all well and good now when it’s only been a short time but if no vaccine (which is highly highly unlikely within 18 months and even then the usual safety checks would have to be skipped) then I don’t think shielded people can be expected to just stay in their houses. The government won’t pay (aside from the very low amount of disability allowance they currently pay) and think of the mental health implications which are equally important.

[Lovemusic33]

There is talk of a vaccine being ready by the end of summer (if trials go ok), I don’t think things will return to normal until then but I do think shops need to reopen but I’m unsure how this can be done unless schools open too? Things are not going to be back to normal for a very long time .

I can cope with the not socialising (social distancing) but would like to be able to drive places and go to a shop to buy clothes, also missing eating out but can cope with not doing it. Things will need to start reopening soon or businesses are going to struggle or go under.

[alloutoffucks]

Social distancing won't work in schools.
Getting back to normal is simply a phrase that means allow the old, disabled and ill to die.

[Pseudosudocrem]

@AmelieTaylor

No just you...oh & the hundreds of posters on the hundreds of other identical threads 🙄🙄

Why do people have to keep staring a new thread to say the same old thing?

Well, excuse me! But since I don't read every single thread on MN I hadn't actually seen any other thread asking this question. Feel free to be unreasonably snarky about it though

[Pickles89]

What I don't understand is why, if every country is affected, it screws the world's economy? It's not like the US hasn't been affected but Europe has, we're all in the same boat.

[alloutoffucks]

@Inkpaperstars No one who is in shielded group can make a choice not to go back to work unless the government supports that. And if their partners and kids have to go back to work and school, they will catch the virus anyway and many will die.

[circusintown]

@NikeDeLaSwoosh can you explain to me why my loved ones will be dead anyway in 5 years?

[circusintown]

Also

"My Left wing friends genuinely believe that austerity is ideological In nature and a recession isn’t necessarily going to happen"

They don't sound very intelligent but I doubt that's got anything to do with their political persuasions

[Echobelly]

I don't know, but we can't continue like this until there is a vaccine or everyone's had it, because there would be no economy left. I honestly have no idea what the answer is, but it is going to have to be gradual - we can't go back to packed public transport, shopping malls, city centres etc anytime in the near future, but we will have to be creative. I think as time goes on there will be flare-ups so there may be lockdowns on a more local level, but when they come we'll be better prepared.

I think it might be smart to open up local shopping streets for 'non essential' shops soon, maybe have chains doing 'pop ups' on suburban/small town high streets for 6-18 months, keeping only a few customers in at a time etc - there's enough empty shops about! I think you could allow renovations and building/decorating work in houses where no one is vulnerable quite soon - we have some stuff that needs doing and I am happy to stimulate the economy a bit by hiring people as soon as we are able.

[midgebabe]

We can't say that people have to accept death to save the econ9my and prevent future deaths, because the likely number of dead in an uncontrolled situation will have a huge impact on the mental health of survivors, on the physical health of survivors who won't get cancer treatment because there won't be a functioning NHS and and a huge negative impact on the economy

We already have far more deaths than say Germany because we were prepared to try that health vs economy trade at the start of this, and the NHS is barely coping with the death rate in lockdown , with cancer treatment and support for heart and stroke victims severely restricted,

Now we have the virus, there is no going back to life as before

[alloutoffucks]

I have a pretty normal life expectancy and can expect to reach 80. I am in the shielded group. I have been surprised by the children and adults in the shielded group as in most cases I had no idea they had those illnesses. Because they work, go to school and socialise. Most have a normal life expectancy.
But sure some of them must die so you can all go back to normal and
start shopping and socialising again.
I will never forgive the British people for this if this happens. Never.

[BubblyBarbara]

If you're vulnerable get paid to stay home. Everyone else goes out and back to normal.

OK, so what do we do about the slither of non-vulnerable, younger people who are dying? 50 million people are under 50. If just 0.1% die, that's 50,000 totally pointless deaths of young, healthy people. A huge cost.

[alloutoffucks]

As soon as schools reopen, it is game over. Social distancing won't happen there.

[alloutoffucks]

@BubblyBarbara The vulnerable group is enormous. That includes all pregnant women, anyone with diabetes. Yes that would save lives.

[alloutoffucks]

@Pickles89 Yes I agree. We will have a short sharp recession and then things will get going again as new business set up. After 2 years we will be almost back to normal.

[thewinkingprawn]

alloutoffucks quite clearly no one is saying that - you are unfortunately at some point (and no one knows when that is) going to have to accept that you have to make a decision as we all do about whether you will go back to work and how you will live your life. If that means you shielding yourself until such time as a vaccine is found then that is absolutely fine. You may then have to accept government help in the form of benefits. You cannot keep the rest of us locked down because of this and whilst people may accept your way of thinking now I will be amazed if they feel the same in 6/12/18 months on when they have no business, no job etc etc. Frankly i’d be happy to be furloughed for the next 18 months on 2500 a month but we all know that is not realistic.

[JediJim]

The government can’t furlough people forever. Although they are paying people wages, pubs bars, retail shops and restaurants need a profit to survive too. So although they may be saving money on employees wages, they aren’t turning over anything.
The NHS is paid for by taxpayers. If there ain’t enough people paying tax the NHS can’t survive, nor can the rest of the public sector.
I think by end of May a serious decision will
need to be made.
What about vulnerable people staying at home whilst everything else slowing returns to normal?
When you look at the figures, I know it sounds harsh but the total deaths we had are in the thousands, not millions. Most people will survive with mild symptoms.
The economy will have to return to normal sooner or later.
People wouldn’t want to live like this permanently, that cannot be an option.
Can someone tell me why the Chinese markets have reopened after this global pandemic?
www.thesun.co.uk/news/11399805/wuhan-wet-markets-coronavirus-reopen-who-green-light/amp/

[okiedokieme]

I am in an impossible situation so I have to break lockdown on Monday. I have an adult dd with mental health problems too scared to go to the dr to get her meds, need to go to work etc - I'm petrified about being stopped by the police. I know my journey is essential but returning to my dp's is not but I cannot cope being in lockdown with dd, she's is impossible to live with (I do love her but after 22 years I need to think about my mental health too)

[circusintown]

@okiedokieme what you've described there isn't against guidelines.

You won't be "breaking lockdown" by taking a vulnerable person their medication. Just observe social distancing

[Stellamboscha]

On e of the reasons the deaths on ventilators is so high that it is not the best way to get oxygen into people with the disease -a doc said today on the radio that the mask treatment that Boris has is the best option because this disease is not like pneumonia where the lungs are impaired it is lack of oxygen.
So as treatment options improve the death rebate will go down and we will just have told everyone with the fact that nobody lives forever and of you have an 'underlying health condition' you have worse odds anyway. Rather some older people dying earlier than young people suicide rates rocket. If you think having an elderly relative die is distressful you clearly haven't had to suffer the pain of a family member committing suicide.

[thewinkingprawn]

okiedokieme in your situation I would go to your DP’s if you are able with your DD. I do actually think some things are more important for some people than lockdown, mental health being one of them!

[alloutoffucks]

@thewinkingprawn Of course that is what people are saying. And you can't get benefits for a whole family because a member is in the shielded group. I am not ill, we would not be looking for work. We would not be eligible for benefits. Unless you are well off the only thing you can do is go out to work. Because otherwise I would only have child benefit to feed us all. That would be the only money coming in. And that is not possible.

[alloutoffucks]

@Stellamboscha People are put on ventilators as a last resort. We have known this since China. In spite of what is being said this is not new knowledge. I read Drs in China saying the same thing.

[CustardySergeant]

I can't see how it can end until a vaccine is ready, which could well be the end of next year.