NHS app to track coronavirus infections

[Shehz21]

www.politicshome.com/news/article/ministers-hope-nhs-app-can-help-lift-lockdown-by-tracking-coronavirus-infections

It would only work if 60% of the population dowloaded it.

Would you?

[Shitsgettingcrazy]

Apple, Google and multiple international governments would not be investing in this if they didn't have reason to believe it would be effective.

You mean the multi billion dollar companies? Really? Theres no other reason they may do it, except out of pure altruism?

And even if it wasn't, just thepotentialbenefits of this, compared to the potential risks, make it a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned.

Really a no brainer? Despite no clear benefits, at this point.

It may make it a no brainer as far as you are concerned. That's not a good thing.

But, yes, entering something like this with no clue about how much it may improve things, is ridiculous. Asking questions before mindlessly signing up to it, is a no brainer as far as I am concerned.

[Delatron]

I wonder if in South Korea (where I know the culture is different). Did they all put up a massive fuss and say ‘oh not contact tracing, we haven’t seen whether it’s effective or how this works’.

Or whether they all got on with it as a proven successful strategy for managing a pandemic and saving lives. Yes in conjunction with mass testing. We don’t have loads of options right now and this is one strategy that has worked for other counties. Unless we all fancy staying locked down indefinitely whilst wittering about our privacy. Oh the irony.

[florisandyoris]

As I said before, this govt has been in negotiations to hand over our NHS data and access to our smartphone data including camera feed to a company that has sold a large amount of shares to Chinese companies involved in their oppressive citizen monitoring scheme.
I don’t trust this government to operate a monitoring app that has sensitive data without securing that from other interested, possibly nefarious parties.
The Chinese monitoring app is used for social engineering and suppressing political opposition, controlling citizens behaviour in a way which is totally against democratic freedoms.
It’s not something we should be emulating.

[Delatron]

Right because our government is so similar to the Chinese government.

[Shitsgettingcrazy]

Do you think no one in china or SK asked a few questions?

The millions of phones that went out of use in china, when they started? What happen with that?

Ffs the objection to people wanting information before signing up is bizarre. And the implication that its moral superior to just unquestionungly comply, is just downright wrong.

Asking questions before signing up or wanting to know more doesnt make someone morally inferior. The whole attaching morals to downloaded of an app, is similar to how religion works. 'Tell people they are bad people if they dont do as we say, immediately. Just follow the rules, dont ask questions and accept everything. Or you are bad person'. Rarely works out well for people.

[florisandyoris]

The irony is a govt that smeared the opposition as being rabid communists is willing to bring in restrictions on movement and monitoring that has been standard in Communist China and in Opressive regimes in the Middle East to suppress anti govt activity.
It’s anti democratic to be monitored in your own home and to have your movements recorded for evidence or suspicious activity and rule breaking.

[Delatron]

I’m sure we’ll get information. People are writing this off before we’ve seen how it could work. We are not in China .

Didn’t Germany do something similar?

We know that contact tracing and mass testing is a good strategy. I’m open to seeing this app and how it could work. Why write off something that could save lives without even seeing it?

[florisandyoris]

www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/05/02/xinjiang-how-china-uses-a-spying-smartphone-app-to-automate-citizen-oppression/#6a6deef41ef4




Having sold much of our infrastructure, this govt is now selling our data to data harvesting companies with large Saudi and Chinese shareholders.
Yes it is worrying because these countries will attack dissidents in the UK as we saw with the Kashoggi case, they don’t respect our borders or laws.

[wonderstuff]

I will, but I will also consider changing my phone and number after all this.
I think Google are already tracking us all the time, this is probably no worse?
My biggest concern is that the government track record with it is pretty poor, hope it works.

[Shitsgettingcrazy]

I’m sure we’ll get information. People are writing this off before we’ve seen how it could work. We are not in China

I dont think people should write it off, without looking at it. I just dont think it's wrong to look at it before signing up either.

Whatever someones decision is, they should actually look into it first.

Wanting to know more, doesnt make someone a bad person or mean they dont care about people dying.

[florisandyoris]

To all those who think that they have nothing to hide, are you going to stop your children from being involved in human rights, politics, charities etc?
Because campaigning against animal abuse; wet markets, sex slavery, for womens rights etc could get you flagged as a dissident in those countries.

[florisandyoris]

They also have a large amount of Russian shareholders, some of them on the US sanctions list.
But apparently we can trust them with the entire populations NHS medical records and access to our smartphone data.

[Delatron]

Of course we will look it before signing up.

I think contact tracing and mass testing is a good idea and in principle I’m happy to sign up to an app that does this.

Right now I’m not too bothered about Russian shareholders. I’m interested in tried and tested ways to control a current pandemic which is threatening thousands of lives and we have no solution to until a vaccine comes along.

[GoldenOmber]

I am very concerned about privacy, so I'd want to see a lot about how this would work while preserving privacy to use it. If it did, I definitely would use it though, as part of a test-and-trace strategy where the testing bit is happening on a large scale too. I am fairly sure it COULD be done in a privacy-preserving way.

Realistically we're looking at 3 options:

1. let the virus just machete its way through the population and kill hundreds of thousands of people;
   
2. stay in lockdown or on-and-off lockdown cycles indefinitely;
   
3. put a good test-and-trace strategy in place.
   
   Options 1 and 2 are awful. So we need to start thinking about how option 3 would work and that's got to involve technology.

[LilacTree1]

I haven’t RTWT

Some people are just going to claim they’ve got symptoms to amuse themselves, surely?

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

The only way it would work surely is if people are all tested as soon as they say they are presenting with symptoms? And what would happen to those who've had it already (before the app becomes available)?

[PowerslidePanda]

You mean the multi billion dollar companies? Really? Theres no other reason they may do it, except out of pure altruism?

I never suggested they were doing it altruistically, but the PR disaster of an app that claimed to saves lives and didn't is hardly in their interests either, is it?


As you have, again, fallen back to your argument about the lack of benefits at this moment in time, I'll repeat my response that there won't be benefits until people start using it. You can sit and wait for your answers - the only way you're going to get them is by the people who "mindlessly sign up to it" putting it to the test. Fortunately, some of us are actually trying to be part of the solution.

[Shitsgettingcrazy]

I never suggested they were doing it altruistically, but the PR disaster of an app that claimed to saves lives and didn't is hardly in their interests either, is it?

That doesnt even makes sense.

You are saying that it wint be a success u less people down load it. So apple and facebook cant predict how successful it will be. But then predict it will be successful to work on it?

Or maybe they are working on it because it's worth a fortune. Maybe they wont support claims that it will reduce the spread.

To say 'apple are making it, so it's going to work and have no issues' is incredibly naive.

You can sit and wait for your answers - the only way you're going to get them is by the people who "mindlessly sign up to it" putting it to the test. Fortunately, some of us are actually trying to be part of the solution.

Or you can look at how it was developed. Looks at its permissions. Lots of ways to check it out, without sitting back watching others use it

Again part of the solution. The manipulation, displayed by some posters on here is genuinely interesting. 'If you dont do as I think you should, you arent as good as me', is a really manipulative narrative.

You can ask questions, look into the app and the data gathering and download it the same day as someone who downloads it mindlessly. You would be given the information on data protection before you finish signing up.

You seem to think those that want to know more, mean they wont download for weeks or months. It's a few hours, at most.

[WobblyAllOver]

Fortunately, some of us are actually trying to be part of the solution

Unless the app is coupled with quick testing for everyone then this may not be part of the solution.

It will only work if symptoms are collaborated with tests given the amount of people on here claiming the virus must have been rampant in the uk last year as they had 'all the symptoms'.

Privacy is an issue and should be for any medical app so saying those that want to see that information more clearly aren't trying to be part of the solution isn't helpful at all.

[LonginesPrime]

For the people not concerned about privacy or people's individual freedoms, it's worth keeping in mind that we were all free to move around as we pleased a month ago.

As soon as exercising our right to freedom was recognised as a major public health risk, this was (rightly) curtailed. There always has to be a balance between the rights of the individual and that of the greater good from the government's perspective - we're essentially all just numbers to them.

What if, in the near future, it is deemed that it would be in the nation's best interests to round up all the infected and keep them in a secure facility? What if some people develop natural antibodies and others don't, through no fault of their own? These different classes may we'll end up being treated differently.

The reason I'm wary of an app such as this (aside from the fact I doubt its efficacy and don't trust the NHS's data processing competencies) is because things are changing. Fast. And the current thinking now is unlikely to be the same next month, and the month after that.

[PowerslidePanda]

@Shitsgettingcrazy - You're completely twisting what I'm saying. I concede that Apple and Google stand to make money from this - but it would very much backfire on them if it wasn't effective - so they're clearly confident that - with sufficient uptake - it will be. Nobody is predicting what the uptake will be - we're predicting success assuming uptake. And I never said that there weren't going to be issues - in fact I said that even if there were, the potential to save lives is worth it as far as I'm concerned. Not least because any "issues" are pure speculation at this point.

Or you can look at how it was developed. Looks at its permissions. Lots of ways to check it out, without sitting back watching others use it

Nobody has said we won' be looking at that! We've already pointed out that it's open source code! You're the one who's insisting of seeing proof it works!

Disappointed that this has descended into a personal attack, but if you want me to be frank - yes, I do think I'm better than you - I'm willing to be part of stopping this thing and happy to take the (very low) risk to my personal data to it. Your closed-minded "privacy over lives" attitude is no better than the people who claim their "human right" to go for a pint should exempt them from lockdown, or those who refuse to be vaccinated but want the herd immunity from everyone else. But at least I can admit to feeling superior - unlike you, labelling us all "mindless" every 5 seconds. And shortage of manipulation in your posts either!

I'm exiting the thread at this point.

[PhilCornwall1]

we're essentially all just numbers to them.

Agreed, anyone who actually thinks the government gives a shit about any of us in all of this is naive. It is just a numbers game and nothing more to them.

[PowerslidePanda]

Privacy is an issue and should be for any medical app so saying those that want to see that information more clearly aren't trying to be part of the solution isn't helpful at all.

I'm not criticising the request to see that information - I'm criticising the ridiculous "I won't sign up until I know it's effective" notion.

[Shitsgettingcrazy]

And I never said that there weren't going to be issues - in fact I said that even if there were, the potential to save lives is worth it as far as I'm concerned. Not least because any "issues" are pure speculation at this point.

How can you say that if you havent looked at the potential issues? You have no idea what they are.

And you are willing to sign up for it, without knowing the potential problems or the potential benefits.

How is it a personal attack? You want to start the attempts at manipulation to try and shame people into not asking questions, then you get called out on it.

Nobody has said we won' be looking at that! We've already pointed out that it's open source code!You'rethe one who's insisting of seeing proof it works!

Who is we?

No, I didnt say I wanted see proof. I said I wanted to know more about it. So who is twisting what people say?

You may think you are better than the people who want to know more. But you are wrong.

I havent said privacy over lives. Ever. I didnt even say I wouldn't download it.

How exactly is asking questions about how it will work, the same as going to crowded place or having a pint in a pub?

You may think you are better than other people. But the attempts to try and shut people down who ask questions or have concerns, prove that you are not.

I dont think I am better than anyone. Because most people dont. Or at least decent people dont. But you wont shame me into not questioning the implications before making a decision.

[Abbccc]

There is little point in saying that it works in other countries unless all the other variables are the same, which they're not.