NHS app to track coronavirus infections

[Shehz21]

www.politicshome.com/news/article/ministers-hope-nhs-app-can-help-lift-lockdown-by-tracking-coronavirus-infections

It would only work if 60% of the population dowloaded it.

Would you?

@statisticallychallenged ah that does make sense actually thank you. I assumed it would log your area and then just message anyone else who was logged in the same area. Yeah blue tooth on all the time would be annoying in regards to draining your battery.

Yes, but I lead an unbelievably dull life. I'd want a bit more information and some reassuring commentary from experts in the media as I am never going to have the level of understanding that some others will have.

Oops sorry fat fingers.

@B1rdbra1n that is a tough conundrum.
I don’t think the uk population would accept that a condition of being allowed to leave their homes was based on having the ally on their phone. If they did I would expect to see a lot of phone swapping and phones accidentally going for long swims.

My phone battery is useless currently (new one just ordered) and would absolutely not last a day with bluetooth pinging away.

I think they're going to have a few challenges with this:

1. I don't think acceptance/compliance will be anything like as high as it is in the countries who have (apparently) used this sort of approach successfully.
2. Even amongst those who download it, lots don't carry their phones (looking at you MIL who leaves it at home every time she goes out wit the dog)
3. It will miss a lot of contacts. If I'm at work (WFH just now) then I tend to have my phone on my desk, but actually most of my contacts are away from my desk. I sit in a quiet corner... It's when I go to the loo, or to get water or to talk to colleagues, or for a meeting, that I'm in the closest proximity. Most of these contacts would be missed. The office is big enough that I would show as out of range of most of my colleagues. Similarly kids at school (no phones, or in locker/bag) and so on.

I think it will be helpful for identifying some possible cases but I don't think it's bulletproof. To me it's one strand

Yes. South Korea did this (already had it set up ready to go after a threatened epidemic a few years ago) test + then track down contacts of those who’ve tested positive, and it certainly worked for them. Only viable with good testing capacity though.

And of course it’s still only a slowing down procedure, until there’s a vaccine an awful lot more of us are going to catch it eventually.

I think the key thing with SK is that they started from a very low point. We have a massively higher number of cases (possibly in to millions if other countries info is more accurate) so getting it to a level where we can achieve South Korea seems unlikely.

No thanks.

It's all very well tracking health data for one reason, but when policies change and people start to get more vocal about 'just letting the shielded people die already' (or whatever the sentiment du jour is), that data might end up being used differently.

Hopefully it wouldn't be, but historically that kind of data collection 'for the good of the people' has been used to eradicate populations in the past in Europe.

Legal protections for vulnerable people have been rolled back all over the place in recent weeks so there are far fewer legal checks and balances than normal in the UK at the moment - we're not protected and can't rely on being a 'civilised' society to protect the vulnerable at the moment.

@Abbccc it wasnt me that said I didnt care. I quoted a poster that does.

I agree with you.

To the poster that said out civil liberties are already curbed. Yes, they are. Which is why I am reluctant to volunteer to give more up.

We know when we cab see our friends again. We dont know what this app could add to your phone.

It's not even about knowing your location. When you add an app they often come with permissions people downt think about. Access to your contacts, photos. Not just location.

I am not going to grant the government access to my personal phone, without knowing the details.

It's also about what comes next.

As I said, I didnt say no. I said I wanted to know more.

Of course. If this is the way to beat the virus then obviously I would do it. If it saves lives to download an app for a short period, that beats any privacy/phone battery concerns.

Download the app, save lives.

Being able to see my parents and friends again and not spreading the disease is worth it.

We can always delete the app when this is over. My movements are dull anyway.

Yes I would download it.

They can track us all through GPS anyhow - it’s not like we have any privacy at the moment.

we don't know what this app could add to your phone

They have promised the solution will be what is called "open source". That means software people anywhere can read the code. This will means the code will only be able to do what they have promised as otherwise someone will read the code and spot the problem. I found that very reassuring.

So for example I've tested positive for the virus.. Does the NHS load this information on the app or do I do that myself.
Presumably NHS to stop people lying

So now I have the virus I should be at home so why would anyone need to be alerted

And even if it alerted someone while I was on my way home from testing.. How is that helpful?? That other person is now panicked.

I can imagine vigilantes as well if an infection was found on a tube train for example

Maybe i am just being thick but I cant see how it's helpful

As an ex mobile app developer (still developing, just wandered into a different direction) I’ve a vague idea how this could be done. However, unless in the past 4 years Bluetooth has a) become more secure (you’d get dick pic’d on the Tube) and b) the Bluetooth battery draining issues have been resolved that alone would get my Spidey senses tingling it’d be a bit crap.

Of course, it could be argued that ‘you shouldn’t be out too long, so short battery life isn’t an issue!’ by the Powers That Be. Although it took 3 hours to do a Pharmacy run (queue), queue at Sainsbury’s, do shop for us & 2 shielded family members etc last Thursday...

Don’t worry about it knowing your location though. Your phone does that anyway! Our company was at the forefront of Location Based Services in 2003. That’s 17 years your phone has been able to know where you are! You’d triangulate location based on 3 cell phone masts. I think telephony on the phone still does that (although geo services are satellite based now - think services like Google Maps). Photos are geo-coded. Likewise FB posts, tweets, Google searches...

It’ll be interesting to see the Apple api for this.

Ultimately, until there is more comprehensive testing for COVID, the app is pretty much a crap shoot for false reporting of any sniffle, trolling etc.

I genuinely don't get it. If they decide to reopen schools entirely, won't any teacher's phone (or students for that matter) be alerting them constantly, given the numbers of people in the building (likewise many other crowded places : just one example)? Won't entire workplaces and schools be alerted? I see sometimes 500 people a day. Or does this app only work during semi lockdown?

Can anyone explain, for the technology challenged what happens? You get alerted and then what? Go home and panic for two weeks?

Anyway, I am another who has no space for apps on my phone...

What's the point without mass testing? All the untested people who shrug it off won't be recorded so if my asthmatic dh encounters it with likely devastating consequences to his health, we won't know.

As an aside - your Bluetooth would just pop up & down would be my guess, on a regular timing. Pop up, handshake available device, shut down...pop up, handshake, shut down. Not ideal. But a workaround. Until the api is available, who knows?

Absolutely not. Apart from the privacy aspect, how can it be reliable when we're not widely testing? You'd get an alert every time you passed someone with a sniffle who self-diagnosed.

We’re in the middle of a pandemic. I honestly don’t care about my privacy right now! We can barely leave the house currently...

This does need to be combined with mass testing but yes I would do anything to try and get this under control and ironically get some freedom back. If that means the government know where I am so be it.

The countries like S.Korea that have done this have been successful. But yes they were
starting from a point of low cases.

I’d still give it a go.

Isn't it better just to mass test people? If you're positive, you stay home. If that needs to be enforced somehow, then that's the issue. An app showing where the infectious person/people is/are is just putting targets on them. Maybe that's how getting them to stay home is enforced? But then they'd still have to go out for a test to confirm they were virus free anyway, unless someone care to their residence to do that.

And given that the NHS/gov gave (sold?) patient data to google TWICE that I know of, I'd not be comfortable with them having this extra info from me.

If it was through the company Hancock mentioned, NO WAY. Seriously sinister (and nothing to do worth Epstein or Barak).

I am not sure how this can be any use as everyone on here seems to be self diagnosing a sniffle as coronavirus. I just think you are going to have lots of people saying they have symptoms.

If it was backed by people having tests then yes I would use it but not if it's self diagnosis.

Yes we need testing of potential carriers

If it helps stop people dying then yes. I don't participate in any behaviour that makes me paranoid about being 'watched' anyway. If anyone wanted to spend time doing that they would get bored very quickly. My online activity consists of Mumsnet, Facebook and clothes buying. It strikes me that the only people who are worried about this app are those with something to hide.

So, if your app told you you had been in close contact with someone diagnosed, what do you then do? This is genuinely the bit I don't get.

In S Korea you go and get tested, I guess. But we all know mass testing is not going to happen here.