Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

While driving to exercise might be unwise it is not prohibited by emergency legislation--new guidance for police.

199 replies

BreathlessCommotion · 31/03/2020 00:05

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/30/uk-police-guidelines-coronavirus-lockdown-enforcement-powers-following-criticism-lord-sumption?

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 31/03/2020 12:44

. I don't think you driving somewhere to wave at someone fits that criteria

But you don't know the circumstances, so straight off you've decided that your reasons absolutely do justify your actions but that someone else's reasons don't.

I am really struggling. Hugely in fact. Have been told multiple times over the weekend by people on MN that I'm clearly mentally ill and need to seek help. I'm fearful that if I catch it I will die from it. If my elderly father catches it he will likely die from it. I certainly doubt whether either of us would get ITU care. I'm genuinely terrified that I won't see my children again - why isn't that a good enough reason?

BrazenHusky74 · 31/03/2020 12:49

I think farmers are feeling under siege. Yes, walkers can still use footpaths and bridleways and no one has the right to stop that but we have fields that have no public right of ways and everyone seems to think it's open season. I realise that I am very lucky to have access to plenty of outside space but I don't want to be coming across anyone on my private property miles from roads or public right of ways.

UYScuti · 31/03/2020 12:50

www.spectator.co.uk/article/former-supreme-court-justice-this-is-what-a-police-state-is-like-
'we have to recognise that this is how societies become despotisms. And we also have to recognise this is a process which leads naturally to exaggeration. The symptoms of coronavirus are clearly serious for those with other significant medical conditions, especially if they're old. There are exceptional cases in which young people have been struck down, which have had a lot of publicity, but the numbers are pretty small. The Italian evidence, for instance, suggests that only in 12 per cent of deaths is it possible to say coronavirus was the main cause of death. So yes this is serious and yes it's understandable that people cry out to the government. But the real question is: is this serious enough to warrant putting most of our population into house imprisonment, wrecking our economy for an indefinite period, destroying businesses that honest and hardworking people have taken years to build up, saddling future generations with debt, depression, stress, heart attacks, suicides and unbelievable distress inflicted on millions of people who are not especially vulnerable and will suffer only mild symptoms or none at all, like the Health Secretary and the Prime Minister.

Dymond The executive, the government, is all of a sudden really rather powerful and really rather unscrutinised. Parliament is in recess, it's due to come back in late April, we're not quite sure whether it will or not, the Prime Minister is closeted away, communicating via his phone, there is not a lot in the way of scrutiny is there?

Sumption No. Certainly, there's not a lot in the way of institutional scrutiny. The press has engaged in a fair amount of scrutiny, there has been some good and challenging journalism. But mostly the press has, I think, echoed and indeed amplified the general panic.

Dymond The restrictions in movement have also changed the relationship between the police and those whose, in name, they serve. The police are naming and shaming citizens for travelling at what they see as the wrong time or driving to the wrong place. Does that set alarm bells ringing for you, as a former senior member of the judiciary?

Sumption Well, I have to say, it does. I mean, the tradition of policing in this country is that policemen are citizens in uniform. They are not members of a disciplined hierarchy operating just at the government's command. Yet in some parts of the country, the police have been trying to stop people from doing things like travelling to take exercise in the open country, which are not contrary to the regulations, simply because ministers have said that they would prefer us not to. The police have no power to enforce ministers' preferences, but only legal regulations - which don't go anything like as far as the government's guidance. I have to say that the behaviour of the Derbyshire police in trying to shame people into using their undoubted right to take exercise in the country and wrecking beauty spots in the Fells so that people don't want to go there, is frankly disgraceful.
This is what a police state is like. It's a state in which the government can issue orders or express preferences with no legal authority and the police will enforce ministers' wishes. I have to say that most police forces have behaved in a thoroughly sensible and moderate fashion. Derbyshire police have shamed our policing traditions. There is a natural tendency of course, and a strong temptation for the police to lose sight of their real functions and turn themselves from citizens in uniform into glorified school prefects. I think it's really sad that the Derbyshire police have failed to resist that.

Dymond There will be people listening who admire your legal wisdom but will also say 'well, he's not an epidemiologist, he doesn't know how disease spreads, he doesn't understand the risks to the health service if this thing gets out of control'. What do you say to them?

Sumption What I say to them is I am not a scientist but it is the right and duty of every citizen to look and see what the scientists have said and to analyse it for themselves and to draw common sense conclusions. We are all perfectly capable of doing that and there's no particular reason why the scientific nature of the problem should mean we have to resign our liberty into the hands of scientists. We all have critical faculties and it's rather important, in a moment of national panic, that we should maintain them.

BreathlessCommotion · 31/03/2020 12:52

You're right. I shouldn't judge your reasons. I'm really just not very well. And there's nothing that can be done about it.

OP posts:
ginghamstarfish · 31/03/2020 12:53

I feel sorry for the police, having to deal with a completely unprecedented situation. They were not given particularly clear guidelines to work with either. They can't know that a carful of young people driving around is either a bunch of idiots on a jolly, or a group of nurses going to work, until they stop and ask. I'd prefer that they did.

coachman · 31/03/2020 12:54

I still believe there can't be many people who need to drive for exercise rather than want to. In London it's perfectly possible to go out for a walk from your front door. Everywhere is quieter than normal. Yes, there may be a few instances where people need to, but most seem to be want rather than need.

People living in towns and cities, like I do, need to accept that for the moment close to home is where our exercise should be.

mencken · 31/03/2020 12:58

what coachman said. It is probably fairly shit living in a city at the moment but preferable to dying.

The screams of 'police state' come from those who don't live in one. It's bad enough on here at the best of times. We didn't have enforcement and thousands of dumbos all went places to breathe all over each other. So we now have enforcement. Blame the dumbos.

halcyondays · 31/03/2020 12:59

Millions of people throughout the centuries didn’t have cars.

kateybeth79 · 31/03/2020 12:59

As of the 26th March the police were given new powers to instruct people to disperse, leave or go home and they can hand out fixed penalty notices if they are ignored. This information comes from my OH who is a police officer. Don't forget the police are also front line workers risking themselves to keep everyone safe.

If people keep pushing the boundaries we will end up in full lockdown which nobody wants.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 31/03/2020 13:08

There are exceptional cases in which young people have been struck down, which have had a lot of publicity, but the numbers are pretty small.

This is wrong on two counts.

Firstly, younger people are catching it, the mean age for a patient in ITU in the UK is 60 and ages 18 - 49 are a fairly large number of patients.

Secondly, even if Covid is more serious in the elderly and vulnerable an overwhelmed health service won't be able to cope with young people's illnesses either - head injury, car accident, heart attack, cancer. So, if you let Covid run wild because you think that it only affects the old and the sick so you'll be alright Jack, you'll suddenly find that the young and healthy are dying from the things that are potentially fatal but are usually treated.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 31/03/2020 13:12

BreathlessCommotion

I'm sorry that you're having such a tough time of this. I imagine that there are many many people feeling like you right now.

I sincerely hope that life returns to normal for all of us as soon as possible.

RollaCola84 · 31/03/2020 13:16

It's quite concerning how many police officers including senior ones who don't seem to understand that they have the power to enforce the law not guidance, not statements even if they were made by the PM. Parliament must still make law

RollaCola84 · 31/03/2020 13:18

@kateybeth79 they have those powers ONLY if the law is being broken. Buying Easter eggs and driving to exercise if not breaking the law, I hope your OH and his colleagues know that.

TheArchSorcererofContwaraburg · 31/03/2020 13:26

Everyone's the exception, or their dog, their kids, their mental health, etc. So when and if this hits the fan in the next week or so we can expect stricter lockdown and more deaths.

CheeseCakeSunflowers · 31/03/2020 13:48

BreathlessCommotion I have an ds with ASD and I can understand your need for space. My opinion is that we have been given guidelines and we must now all use our common sense and apply them according to our individual circumstances. We have become so use to having laws where every eventuality is considered before it becomes law, but now things are moving so fast that it has been left to us to work out the finer details. If taking that extra walk is the difference between you feeling suicidal or not then my opinion is take it.

Haffiana · 31/03/2020 14:02

It might not be illegal but please don't do it. I live in a small hamlet and we are inundated by people driving here to walk their dogs. I wish they would stay in their own town or village and keep their virus there with them.
When they meet on a footpath it is hard to keep 2m apart.

I live in a city with 8 million other people. I manage to keep 2 m apart from them. I manage perfectly easily to keep apart from the few thousand in my street on their way to the two supermarkets here.

Imafarmerama · 31/03/2020 16:15

Haffiana well said!

This NIMBY-ism is absurd.

Randomschoolworker19 · 31/03/2020 16:36

It's not really about whether something is illegal or not is it?

It's about common decency and trying to save people's lives.

It might not be illegal to drive your car for exercise or to walk your dog. You're not a criminal etc... But if you do given the circumstances and while key workers such as myself are risking our lives trying to save yours then you're a dick.

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 31/03/2020 16:42

It's about common decency and trying to save people's lives.

On an individual level yes.

When the police gets involved if definitely becomes and issue of law. They can and should enforce the laws ,not opinions. Even if they belong to Boris ,Debbie on Facebook or SuperCovidFighter on MN.

coachman · 31/03/2020 16:45

Haffiana well said.

PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock · 31/03/2020 16:46

And can you explain to me how me getting in a car,with no contact with anyone,not touching anything except the car, driving 5 minutes up the road and then going for a long walk in the mostly empty woods spreads the virus and endangers the public/NHS workers more than walking the whole way,through residential streets,on narrow pavements past people etc?

Imafarmerama · 31/03/2020 16:47

BBC 4 radio interesting at the mo

Randomschoolworker19 · 31/03/2020 16:56

@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock

Because that's another car on the road that doesn't need to be.

If you break down, have a crash or get injured on your walk you'll require the help of the emergency services.

Even if you don't, at some point you're going to need to refuel your car and that's another place the virus could be transmitted.

You don't know for certain you're not going to meet anyone on your walk.

Of course, you could equally meet someone on your walk by your house, but then at least it's confined to your immediate area and not a couple of miles away down the road.

It's about stopping the spread of the virus geographically as well as from person to person.

XingMing · 31/03/2020 20:16

I am walking XingDog from home on foot, and am happily close to a NT property. It's like my back garden. There are signs to say the property is closed and there are no faciltiies available, including loos, but that walk in walk out local residents are welcome.

I do sympathize deeply with everyone living in a confined space in a city trying to give their children an opportunity to run off some energy. .

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread