To ask dog walkers to keep them on a lead

[HyacynthBucket]

It seems that although dogs cannot catch Covid-19, they can carry it on their fur if they pick it up from someone say sneezing. Therefore dogs need to be kept well clear of other people when out. Please dog owners, put others first, not your pet and do not allow contact between them and people. Only yesterday someone's dog bounded up to me, jumped up, and I heard the usual "He won't hurt you" from the distant owner. This sort of fatuous self-indulgence by dog owners has got to stop now PLEASE, for everyone's sake.

@BlueGheko
Why don't you just trust dog owners to use their judgment as they always do?

You don't just get to make pronouncements about what other people do.

The rules have been set down quite clearly and at no point was dogs being on leads mentioned.

Why don't you just trust dog owners to use their judgment as they always do?

FFS. That is a laughable question. Where do you want to start? Because not all dog owners are responsible. Because many dogs have poor recall. Because many dogs have no training at all. Because dogs (even well trained ones) are like all animals capable of behaving unpredictably if something out of the ordinary happened.

All of that applies in normal circumstances. Add in coronavirus and the fact you are talking about a few weeks, it's a no brainer. Unless you are truly isolated in the middle of a fucking moor AND your dog recall training is as good as a police dog.

If your dog has poor recall then absolutely they should stay on a lead.

But if their recall is good and they’re not the sort of dog to run up to people then it’s not necessary.

Common sense says this is sensible. But common sense has gone out of the window again.

If you are somewhere safe, away from roads and your dogs are not running up to people and have great recall then it's ok. If not keep them on a lead.

I think for those who don't have dogs, and wonder why dog owners want to let them off, it might help to understand this.

I walk for 5 km with my dog eveyr day. Then dh walks him for another 2-3 km in the evening. That walk has stopped.
Under normal circumstances, he runs up and down and round in circles while I am walking, in and out of the wooded bits etc. Then at one field I throw a ball, he sprints hard for the ball and runs back. I throw it about 20 times, so that is 2 + km of pure hard running.

I worked out that he runs (not walks, runs) about 15-20 km while I walk 5.

I will continue to find places where I can let him off and make him run, even if that means middle of the night walks etc.

Because a high energy dog, who can't do that amount of running is going to start showing stressed behaviour at home.
Usually he chews things when stressed. While we can put up with him for example chewing our shoes, if that stress comes out as biting, then with kids at home, that is dangerous.

Our dog is normally a gentle sopppy thing. But he is a dog. And he has a lot of energy. I am under no illusions, ANY dog can express stress in ANY way.

So, while I can, safely, without encountering anyone else, I will find places where I can make him run.
He is already on the lead MUCH more than normal, I have a 10m lead which allows him to run back and forth while still being on a lead, but we still have empty fields where I can throw the ball and he can run.

This is not primarily about 'oh my dog is a member of the family and I am entitled, and he needs his walkies'

This is practical safety. I have said many times on different threads, I see dog attacks as being one side effect of lockdown. Attacks from high energy underwalked dogs in close proximity to frustrated locked in kids.
That is going to cost plenty of NHS resources which we can't afford.

So, while I do get it, no one wants an out of control dog coming cloes or a dog jumping up etc, dog owners are actually trying to find sensible ways to male this work.

Steppemum, you speak as if you expect people to be understanding because you you have a 'high energy dog' and we should all be concerned about making accommodations for 'high energy dogs' because otherwise there will be dog attacks.
My response is that people who live in urban areas should not keep high-energy predators as pets.
the fact that you have chosen to have a high energy predator as a pet means the rest of us are at risk from dog attacks.
The fact that people have chosen to keep multiple dogs in their household means that the rest of us have to put up with the nuisance of these animals milling around in urban spaces, not to mention the fecal contamination.

Steppemum, you speak as if you expect people to be understanding because you you have a 'high energy dog' and we should all be concerned about making accommodations for 'high energy dogs' because otherwise there will be dog attacks.

you misunderstand me, deliberately I think.
I am not asking for exception to the rule, or for you to make an accommodation in any way. If any accommodation has to be made, it must be made by dog owners obviously.
At the moment the government does not ask for dogs to be on leads, so I am strictly following government guidelines, sensibly.
Dog owners are being slated for following guidelines.

You have no idea where I am, urban, rural. You are not in any way at risk of an attack from my dog, if anyone is at risk it is the dog's family.

I agree with you that many, many dogs are kept by people who shouldn't keep them, large dogs in flats, multiple dogs in inner cities etc. many large dog breeds kept for the wrong reasons and badly trained. Many people who don't pick up dog pooh etc.

But just as there are resonsible and irresponsible people in every walk of life, so there are with dog owners.

Many many dogs are kept by people who shouldn't keep them
I'm glad that we have an area of agreement, I'm sure your dogs are lovely, I am extremely conflicted on this, on the one hand I like dogs, but in so many cases the owners seem to use them as a way of dominating threatening intimidating or just being a nuisance to other people.
I feel that we need proper legislation because we are doing dogs a disservice, turning them into something that they don't have to be.
But legislation to control dog ownership would work directly against the interests of the pet industry and they will lobby against anything which hurts their profits.
I am sorry but I see so many bad owners that the good owners are now almost completely obscured for me ☹️

I understand what steppemum is saying.

When we had ddog she was by no means a high energy dog but taking her for a walk meant when we got to the woods she was off lead so she could run around and play with her other dog friends or just run around following smell trails

No idea about how much more running she did but I would say most dogs need to run around at least once per day to expend their energy.
A lead walk around the block isn’t going to be enough.

As a dog walker I took ddog to places where there were no children/people as children were in school and parents were in work and the area was purely dog walkers.

Now I can imagine there is an influx of people in areas that were predominantly unused on a day to day basis

the fact that you have chosen to have a high energy predator as a pet means the rest of us are at risk from dog attacks

Classic mumsnet

but in so many cases the owners seem to use them as a way of dominating threatening intimidating or just being a nuisance to other people.
I feel that we need proper legislation

I agree with you.
but I do find that on mn everyone is pestered by dogs all the time. I posted up thread about what it is like where walk, and it is sensible owners keeping their dogs away form others and all keeping distance.
I do think a lot depends on where you live, and if dog owners are sharing parks with lots of others. Here, the places dogs walk don't tend to have a lot of other users, they go to other parks.

Dog owners are being slated for following guidelines.

A few days ago posters were being slated for driving to more isolated areas to take their exercise and told that it is better to walk locally, even if your area is more populated and risky.

Then the government said this is OK and they went pretty quiet. Now they have found another thread that makes them feel superior about how they are doing social distancing better.

There are no guidelines that says all dogs must be kept on a lead.

Use common sense. Allowing dogs off leads when you can't keep them under your control is irresponsible full stop. If your dog is well controlled, not the type of dog to go up to people and they are off the lead in a safe quiet area then it is fine.

There will always be people who are irresponsible and shit dog owners. We can't stop them. Although these people do exist it does not mean all dog owners are irresponsible and incapable of making sensible decisions. The irresponsible idiots will continue to make shit decisions no matter what.

Unfortunately there are lots of people who will keep letting their dog off, knowing full well the recall isn't 100% and will run over to other dogs and people. Mine doesn't have the best recall so is on a lead every time we go out now.

Some dogs have solid recall and I admit, in isolated areas, can be off lead. But because of owners of dogs that will run over I feel that there could be rules in the future banning off lead exercise completely.

We can't stop them
We need legislation to deal with the bad dog owners

I don't think it's fair to let your dog run wild in public because it's pent up aggression is a threat to your house hold. Because that's what you're saying, steppemum only you're using words like 'high energy', 'stressed' and 'dangerous'. If your dog is running so many miles ahead of you, you have no idea what it is doing and are powerless to stop it.

I walk my dog off lead every day as do many others that I see at a distance. Since the restrictions I, and others I have passed, have leashed the dogs to ensure that we and the dogs meet the two metre restriction. Many people exercise common sense without directives and others will ignore directives no matter what.

Is it reasonable to ask dog owners using shared gardens and entrances/hallways to supervise their dogs and keep them on a lead in these areas? What about toileting in the garden? (The dogs, obviously).

Three households share my main entrance, and the garden is used for access by delivery people to eight households (which include vulnerable and elderly people)?

My concerns are that they're not following social distancing rules so far, and they may also risk supplies being delivered.

If your dog is running so many miles ahead of you

where in any of my posts did you get the idea that he is running miles ahead or that he is running wild.

I said he runs up and down and round in circles, and then I throw a ball and he runs hard and fetches it.
he runs up and down because as he gets a certain distance in front of me, I call him back, so he runs bakc to me, and then runs ahead again.
This is precisely so that he is never too far away for me. He is always close enough that I can see him and see any approaching people/dogs before he reaches them, and call him back.
If we go roudn a corner he is next to me, as I can't see round the corner.

I do love the way you make negative, untrue assumptions becuase he don't like dogs.

And no, high energy does not mean agressive.
He is never and never has been aggressive, he is soft and submissive to other dogs and to people, more likely to hide than to bite, he just likes to run around. But I am not stupid and don't make assumptions, if he is very bored I have no idea because he is after all, a dog.

If we are told he has to be on a lead he will be. I have actually started to walk him on a long lead for 90% of his walk, only letting him off in the very empty field for a run and ball throwing, as I would rather go with the principle and spirit of the law than the letter.

If we are told he has to stay within 50 m of home, like in Spain, then he will have to make do with the back garden and we will tire him out throwing balls for him or teaching him new tricks.

It never ceases to amaze me how you can post something on mn and people can turn it round to mean something else.

Why don't you just trust dog owners to use their judgment as they always do?

Because some dog owners have no sense at all.

Like the couple I met today that were enjoying a picnic in a field full of heavily pregnant ewes whilst their dog ran around off lead, but apparently it was OK because “he’s not interested in sheep”

Why don't you just trust dog owners to use their judgment as they always do?

I must agree that many owners overestimate the control they have of their dog. Those that overestimate also minimize the potential for danger or their dog making a nuisance. It does make it harder for those who are honest.

he’s not interested in sheep
let me guess...was it said in a manner which implies their dog has somehow evolved beyond those primitive instincts, that it has 'higher' things on it's mind than mere sheep?

I don't know, maybe because you said the dog runs 15-20k while you walk 5 Steppe
And because you yourself linked 'high energy' and 'dog attacks', and referred to your stressed dog and acknowledged that any dog can express stress in any way and that if yours was stressed, it would be dangerous for your kids at home.
I've made no assumptions, I'm just reading your words.

I guess 'high energy' is an oblique way of saying that the animal is unsuitable as a domestic pet because it is difficult to contain or control?
Or maybe I'm wrong and 'high energy' means talented and special?

Just bumping my question about whether dogs in shared indoor and outdoor spaces should be kept on leads?

They're currently off lead in shared indoor areas, often left unsupervised in our shared garden, and have started going through hedges into neighbouring private gardens when out alone. They've also been barking at next door but one, and jumped up at people coming through our garden a couple of times (fortunately they've been dog-friendly so far).

Any advice on about this? I'm not really a dog person; I'm especially nervous around ones I haven't known for a while/aren't under good control.