Isolation length needs clarifying urgently

[mrsbumblebees]

I am so confused, the new isolation guidance is so poorly written.

All the media outlets seem to be saying the whole family needs to isolate for 14 days, and this was the initial gist I got from the press conference too.

However, the NHS website and the 'Ending self isolation' section on the gov website both seem to imply the first person to get ill only needs to isolate for 7 days:

NHS:
How long to stay at home
if you have symptoms, stay at home for 7 days
if you live with other people, they should stay at home for 14 days from the day the first person got symptoms

Gov:
If you have been symptomatic, then you may end your self-isolation after 7 days. The 7-day period starts from the day when you first became ill

And
After 7 days, if the first person to become ill feels better and no longer has a high temperature, they can return to their normal routine. If any other family members become unwell during the 14-day household-isolation period, they should follow the same advice - i.e. after 7 days of their symptoms starting, if they feel better and no longer have a high temperature, they can also return to their normal routine.

However, higher up on the same page it also seems to imply that everyone should be doing 14 days?!

It makes sense that the first person to become ill only needs to do 7, and if that person is an adult it would be very helpful as after 7 days they could go out to get food and supplies for the rest of the family.

Are they going to clarify this? I feel its really important and there is so much conflicting information at the moment. Feeling very stressed.

Everything is as clear as mud, I dont even know if I should be isolating really (will do so anyway just for safety sake, dd2 is reception age so not missing too much, we can read at home etc). But I have had different info from different people, dr seemed bemused that dd2 was sent home, my breathing has been helped with increased use of inhaler so likely mine is just my asthma getting out of control as I thought which another medical person agreed with but another medic said it was likely I have symptoms and would need testing but wasn't tested as testing had stopped unless you were admitted to hospital. Like I say clear as blooody mud.

Maybe this is the plan. It’s an elaborate ruse to make everyone stay at home anyway because no one has any idea about WTF they’re actually supposed to be doing.

Although I wouldn’t rule out it being because the government doesn’t know WTF it’s doing.

rafals or alternatively to keep people going to work becuase no one is clear if they should be self isolating so employers tell them to come in?

It HAS been clarified, by Boris last night. If you have symptoms you stay at home for 14 days - simple!

Neither of my 3 sons gets company sick pay so if their family have to self isolate they will.most likely be unable to pay their extortionately high rents.I can imagine others in this situation will be very reluctant to stay off if they aren't ill

(And you also stay home for 14 days if anyone in your household is showing symptoms too of course).

As I understand it. If you live alone it's 7 days. If you live with others they need to isolate for 14 days as it can take 7 days for symptoms to show.

If you after 7 days have no temp or cough you can go out.

I agree!

DS started with symptoms Friday gone so that means he's in isolation until this Friday coming (7 days) and I am until next Friday (14 days)

BUT..... I started with symptoms yesterday so does that mean I can now stop isolation next Monday, 5 days earlier than if I'd had no symptoms?? (Assuming symptoms all gone by then!)

@Dongdingdong it isnt simple when the GOV website says this:

After 7 days, if the first person to become ill feels better and no longer has a high temperature, they can return to their normal routine.

If you show symptoms, you should self-isolate for 7 days. This has been the advice since last week and still remains the same if you live alone.

What is additional is that if you live in a multi-person household, the whole household should self-isolate for 14 days.

This gives 7 days for the initial person to recover, time for the incubation period and 7 days for other people to recover or be sure they haven't got the virus.

The 14 days includes the originally unwell person and anyone who is asymptomatic as they can all still spread the virus from the others by transferring it onto surfaces that someone else then touches.

In my understanding, it makes sense for the first person to do 7 days from start of symptoms, to make sure they are no longer contagious, where as the other members of the household need to do longer (14 days) to allow time for symptoms to show after incubation.

There's an argument ongoing with school over this with some parents. They're saying if the child isn't symptomatic they can come back after 7 days except if they're the ones whose symptoms caused the isolation then how the hell are the rest of us meant to get them to school for the next 7 days. It's nuts

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection

for anyone in the household who starts displaying symptoms, they need to stay at home for 7 days from when the symptoms appeared, regardless of what day they are on in the original 14 day isolation period

It means that if an individual’s 7 days self-isolation starts on day 8-14 of the household's self-isolation period, the household should extend the isolation period until 7 days have elapsed since the last person starts showing symptoms.

@newname54321 that isnt my understanding:

Should a household member develop coronavirus symptoms late in the 14-day household-isolation period (eg on day 13 or day 14) the isolation period does not need to be extended, but the person with the new symptoms has to stay at home for 7 days. The 14-day household-isolation period will have greatly reduced the overall amount of infection the rest of the household could pass on, and it is not necessary to re-start 14 days of isolation for the whole household.

I've done a diagram....

Yellow dots are the period as I understand it that DH and I should be isolating/quarantine as a direct result of DS starting with symptoms on the 13th.

But how does me now having symptoms affect this?

Is DS "free to go" on the 20th or should he isolate for the same period as DH?

Am I "free to go" on the 22nd or should I stay in until the 26th?

Does DH isolate for 14 days from when my systems started so now until the 29th?

So many grey areas!!!!

It means that if an individual’s 7 days self-isolation starts on day 8-14 of the household's self-isolation period, the household should extend the isolation period until 7 days have elapsed since the last person starts showing symptoms.

That would be the logical thing to do, but that is actually not what the guidelines say. If you are well after 14 days, even if someone else got sick less than 7 days ago, the household isolation can stop.

THe first person isolates for 7 days. If no temp and well after that, they come out of isolation. (a continued cough is OK).
The rest of the household isolates for 14 days from the start of the first person's symptoms.
If someone starts showing symptoms within that 14 day period, that individual isolates for a further 7 days from that point, as above.
Unless the rest of the house hold also start showing symptoms at some point, they come out of isolation after the original 14 days.

@frangipaniblue Your son can leave after his 7 days, you can leave after yours, your husband (assuming he doesnt get ill) can leave 14 days after your son first showed symptoms. The reason its confusing is because its totally illogical for the guidelines for your husband to ignore when you got sick.

So my DH has posed an interesting question. He was ill with 'flu' the week before last - dr said wasn't covid as he hadn't been abroad nor had known contact so just flu. Do we work back to him? I got ill the week after, I've had the flu jab but got the same thing. I'm still not well so not planning on going anywhere anyway. Do we work the 14 days back to me? DD had a fever Friday so presumably she has her own 7 days to see out. Are DH and DS free to resume normal life now or 14 days after me or 14 after DD as she was closest to these guidelines?

@seeline that is my understanding too but so many people contradicting it.

I totally agree @meredithgrey1 and it's amusing me no end that I can go out sooner than DH who is not amused at all

It's easy see how the guidance can be confusing though, would've been so much simpler to just say "if one person shows symptoms you ALL isolate for a minimum 14 days and stay in isolation until the last persons symptoms have gone"

Its crazy. I thought same as you mrsbumblebees but the NHS Covid-19 site actually says we should all be staying home for 14 days ....

To avoid spreading infection
If you live alone, do not leave your home for 7 days
Do not leave your home for 7 days from when your symptoms started, however mild they are.

If your temperature is still high after 7 days, stay at home until it’s back to normal.

If you live with other people, keep everyone at home for 14 days
The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in the house became ill.

It is likely that people living within a household will infect each other or be infected already. Staying at home for 14 days will greatly reduce the spread of infection to others in the community.