My mum is the Coronavirus version of ‘Karen’

[Kitkatkatnap]

Attempting to convince my elderly gran to not go to one of her weekly clubs but she is refusing as my mum doesn’t think it’s ‘all that bad’.

I pointed out that many, many counties were on lock down and had banned travel, with a likely impact to their economies probably totaling billions, and that they wouldn’t do that unless it was very, very serious.

My gran says my mum says it’s a load of rubbish and those countries are all overreacting. And she knows this because ‘she’s done research on the Google’

Of course- Linda (66), a retired bank clerk from Surrey, knows more about all of this than most of the world leaders and leading scientists because of what she read on the internet

Jesus wept. You have to laugh otherwise you’d cry.

It’s so frustrating. Just had a conversation with my 75 year old Dad who is fully intending to travel to the other end of the country next week for a holiday - with his partner who has a heart condition among a whole list of health issues. They intend to meet up with a group of 20 friends (of whom they are the youngest) for a week.

His only concern is that the trains might be disrupted.

My aunt on the other hand is trying not to panic as she prepares to self isolate for 4 months...

And I am now self-isolating with my DCs in the hope that we can see DMIL before its too late. (87 and in very poor health... if we wait until the summer to see her we most likely won’t get a chance to say good bye...)

I've noticed that an unfortunate side effect of aging,( in some people, not all, don't hunt me down with pitchforks when you should be self isolating) is inflexible thinking and an inability to accept that things have changed - even when it's things like dealing with a sudden life or death situation. Some, not all. My Grandma in her 80s is adapting well and taking it seriously, others older relatives are not paying any attention and going about without a care in the world.

Many decades ago I was speaking to a security guard who was present in a shop when a building caught fire. The shop had a restaurant and people were eating their meals. Most fled when they heard the fire alarm and saw smoke, but a few groups of elderly people just sat there and carried on eating as if it wasn't happening. It was like their brains couldn't catch up or something. He said he only got them to move when he swept their meals onto the floor.

Why on Earth can people not go outside into their own gardens? Mine backs onto forest. I can walk to the end of it, climber of the fence (and stone wall) and be in the middle of nowhere.

Once the ICUs start overflowing, there is no way a 70-something will be put on a ventilator if there is a younger person with far higher chance of benefiting and surviving that needs it

And I believe that is partly the reason why the isolation of over 70s may well come into force. One to stop that awful choice for the staff and two, to try to protect the over 70s from dying in a corridor or sports hall and their families being broken. This way they might have a fighting chance.

No one thinks it is great. But old age doesn’t come itself and older people are vulnerable because of that. They don’t necessarily need to be ill. As I’ve got older healing takes longer.

My mum (76) is having none of it. She's just not going to change her (very social) behaviour, full stop.

I think that's irresponsible and not very community minded. My mum is usually very responsible and community minded.

I really, really don't understand the psychology of it.

I spoke to my MIL and she was so worried about her elderly friends and people in her church so had signed up to some support network thing. So she's planning on taking food round, walking dogs, checking thy're ok etc. Thing is, she's 78 herself. But she doesn't see herself as elderly or vulnerable. She's fit and healthy and still identifies as a young woman.

My grandma is in her late 80s. Her husband died last year, most of her friends have died. Her main friend is a "lovely young lady" (in her 60s) and she's gone to a tea shop with her today.

She says that she's grateful that God has given her such a long life, but she's ready for Him to "take her home". She's perfectly aware that CV could kill her, but she's less scared of death than of loneliness.

I would be devastated if she died, but she's an adult and it's not up to me to tell her what she can and can't do.

Once the ICUs start overflowing, there is no way a 70-something will be put on a ventilator if there is a younger person with far higher chance of benefiting and surviving that needs it

Have you ever stopped to consider that many over 70s would not want to be on ventilators? My parents both have DNRs and advanced directives (and enough morphine to see themselves out). But hey, let's bash elderly people how stupid and inflexible they are and how we younger folks just don't understand.

My mum has convinced herself that small shops are safer than big shops and she’s self isolating from big shops! Whatever gets them through, they are the ones taking the risk and let’s hope they get away with it.

My MIL, who is 90, is taking this very serious. DH did a food shop for her and dropped it off at her door. She quite rightly didn't invite him in, but was very grateful as it's a long wait now to get groceries delivered.

Ahhhh, the delightful stench of ageism.....the last bastion of the MN bigots

@MauriceandAlec That's fine but it's not just themselves that older people are putting at risk if they refuse to adjust their behaviour. They are risking the lives of others too.

I don't think anyone in this thread is elder bashing. We are just acknowledging that there appears to be a phenomena that some older people don't take the risk seriously enough. That's something we need to take into account in situations like this.

I think people who are saying this is ageist and that as adults they can do as they please are missing the point somewhat.

There are 2 reasons for asking the over 70's to self isolate.

The first is obviously to protect them as a group of individuals.

However, the latter is to protect everyone else.

The facts are that the over 70's who get this are most severely impacted.

They need a disproportionate amount of medical intervention (compared to the rest of the population) wrt both and he duration of the virus in their system and the amount of medical resources.

We know we don't have enough ventilators or beds.

Reducing the burden on the NHS by having less serious cases is vital to everyone and it's this group who predominantly make up the serious cases.

It's not just as simple as saying it's an individual's choice because the ramifications of mass refusal to self isolate will impact a lot of people.

I fully appreciate it's difficult (and am working with my own parents to facilitate their "lockdown") but not doing this is also irresponsible and selfish and these individuals won't be quite so carefree when having prioritised their social life over their social responsibility, they find themselves unable to access the medical care they need because its going to be rationed, in part because of people like themselves (of all ages) who refuse to self isolate as needed.

I think a lot of older people trust what the government says more. It is terrifying that they do.
500,000 will die - using governments own figures - unless we change course quickly

Perhaps when you are elderly you are quite aware already that a virus like a flu can come and wipe you out at any time so you want to make the most of it until it does!

This is understandable but it’s still massively selfish and foolish at the moment to go out and about because you don’t care whether you catch it. What about everyone else? What about the burden on healthcare services etc? In any case OP’s mum isn’t thinking along these lines, more ‘it’s not that bad lalalala’ - and she’s only in her sixties, not her nineties!

Gotta love Dr Google

@EstuaryBird

Ahhhh, the delightful stench of ageism.....the last bastion of the MN bigots

There's another bastion for them sadly, anti-Americanism.

I really, really don't understand the psychology of it

I think a lot of it is that they don’t see themselves as being elderly or at risk.

The 60+ are younger now. I know when my parents think of “old people” they think of their own grandparents who hit 50 and immediately started using a cane, smoking a pipe and got a perm. They don’t think of themselves, jeans-wearing, concert-attending, frequent travellers as elderly.

FFS @Loppy10 what on earth is the matter with you? You're incredibly bitter about the 'older generation' - actually, nasty more than bitter.

I think people who are saying this is ageist and that as adults they can do as they please are missing the point somewhat.

They may not want the intervention. Plenty of made peace with death and some even welcome it. Some would rather take their chances and have social contact with their friends because they place a higher value on such relationships than they do on living as long as possible. It is entirely ageist to sneer at them as a group, labelling them as selfish, stupid idiots who just won't behave the way you want and they must subscribe to your idea of social responsibility.

The level of ageism since this thing came out is staggering.

All you can do is spend some time with her and present her with the facts (or what are thought to be facts at present) and perhaps go through some information from a reputable source. However, presuming she has capacity to make this decision, she has the right to make a potentially unwise decision.

She may well find that the club is cancelled anyway.

Indeed, Miss. Anything disagreeable is 'American'.

but it’s still massively selfish and foolish at the moment to go out and about because you don’t care whether you catch it. What about everyone else?

What if they are just hanging out with each other and not involving everyone else?

Oh, good ol' Loopy, yes, she a major problem with people over 60, particularly baby boomers.

And it hasn't occurred to any of these elderly people who can bloody well live their lives as they jolly well like that if they do fall seriously ill from a contagion they might have avoided, other younger people- family, ambulance drivers, doctors, undertakers- will risk missing out on experiencing old age at all?

At least 2 young doctors and a young nurse- one of them married with a small child- died in China nursing elderly people. There's a 2-year old who thinks mummy's still staying extra long at work.

But heigh-ho, the important thing is that we get to enjoy ourselves...

I am glad to say that my own parents in their late 80s are seeing the wider picture.

Why is it ageist ,I don't understand? Why do people in this bracket feel so offended,? We are trying to protect you , as you did for us ? It is only advice , you can still choose not to take it ?

Then if they want to take the risk and don't want intervention then they need to make that clear Maurice.

Frankly I think people who wilfully break self isolation guidance should be exempt from NHS treatment (whatever their age).

I wonder if this was the reality how many people would be quite so bullish about the risks.