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AIBU to ask you to help the vulnerable and elderly 'cocoon' NOW

37 replies

Sowo · 14/03/2020 08:08

I think to understand what seems like some really bizarre decisions you need to understand that the UK government are taking a different approach to any other government. They want a level of spread. The idea being if 60% of the population get it we develop as a country a level of herd immunity, preventing another huge outbreak next winter.

NY Times article.

It's possible to find arguments for this being a potentially good idea, though also a gamble. Right now only time will tell if it'll turn out that going a completely different direction will pay off or not. I've seen respected scientists arguing both ways. I think more fall on the side that this is a risky and will cause a lot of death.

My concerns are

  • We don't yet know enough about this coronavirus to know if immunity is possible, or if a 60% infection rate is even nearly enough to confer herd immunity. Many flu viruses and other coronaviruses mutate every year hence new vaccines every year. Who knows if people being immune now means they will be immune next flu season? The government has a risky plan that is meant to reduce future deaths. If people are not immune after infection for whatever reason, we will have huge numbers of deaths now and no herd immunity to prevent future deaths later either.
  • The spread is exponential. How do you control that? If you put only small measures in to prevent spread, how do you then slow it once a critical mass of people have been infected? Especially with limited testing. While infection rates in the general population can probably be extrapolated from the amount of deaths and hospital admissions in an area, surely by the time a hospital is close to being overwhelmed, it's too late as there will be huge numbers of people in the community soon to be seriously sick with no beds left. There's a delay between getting infected and being sick enough to need hospital treatment.
  • We can't control who gets the virus. Current measures mean everyone, young and old, healthy or sick, are at similar risk of infection. But we know that only some of us are vulnerable to complications and death as a result. The government intend to 'cocoon' the elderly and vulnerable at some point, to allow everyone else to get infected and have immunity. There are problems with that though, such as risks for people who need carers. But not least the issue is that right now there are no cocooning measures in place. The government has said at some point soon they will tell the vulnerable and those over 70 to stay home. But not yet. How many people are the government willing to let die before those measures are introduced? I can't help but feel we are not human beings for many of the people behind this. We are numbers to the modellers working on this, and a certain number of us can be lost if the models show overall it's worth it. Maybe you need that steely nosed approach but I think it's scary.

My husband and I are young (32 and 34), both us and our children are unlikely to get seriously ill. We will have a higher chance of being ok with the government's plan. But my in-laws are 74 and 76, one has asthma and heart disease, and we rely on them for childcare. My parents are younger but my father has had respiratory problems in the past and regularly gets bronchitis and pneumonia. We also rely on them for childcare. Right now we are working out how we can both continue to work but not have them offer childcare. The risk to them is so much higher and by the time 'cocooning' measures are in place it's going to be too late for large amounts of the older and more vulnerable population. I think the elderly and vulnerable who can need to start their own cocooning measures now. For my in-laws that would be not seeing the grandchildren and the one who works in a busy city centre location to stop working. Stay home as much as possible, still walk the dog and go to shops but wash hands frequently and don't have visitors. Avoid gatherings large and small, work from home if you can.

I think we should all be advising our elderly and vulnerable relatives to reduce contact with others as much as they can. Especially children while schools are remaining open even in the face of infection. Not everyone will be able to do this of course but it has the potential to slow the spread and therefore be a protective move for everyone, surely? We all have a responsibility to do what we can to protect ourselves and therefore others, and even more so to protect those who can't protect themselves, e.g. the 72 year old man with heart disease who can't stop work due to finances. Together we can help protect those people a little bit.

I'm obviously not an expert. But from all I've read this makes sense to me so I want to let others know and I also would love to know others thoughts to help me understand everything better. I may have misunderstood - there's certainly plenty of room for misunderstanding after all.

OP posts:
Glowcat · 14/03/2020 09:07

My father will not listen. Full stop. He has health complications too. He will still be out buying the paper every morning though he has a subscription that means he can access all the content online. He’ll be at church tomorrow. My mother is being very careful but what can she do? You can’t cocoon when you’re married to a fuckwit.

Butterwhy · 14/03/2020 09:09

Care homes have been given guidance, and many are banning visitors, which is heartbreaking but probably for the best. The local one have been given ipads so they can help residents facetime their relatives, not ideal but it's something. Catch 22 really, if schools close more will rely on grandparents to look after their children in order to be able to pay the bills. There is no ideal solution, it's all balanced.

isabellerossignol · 14/03/2020 09:31

I don't think it's fair to call elderly people fuckwits for wanting to get on with their lives. I know my mother would rather have a week of pneumonia and die than suffer 18 months of agony and fading away to a skeleton which is what happened to my father and all her siblings. Wouldn't most people?

Siameasy · 14/03/2020 09:46

My parents aren’t up for isolating themselves from family. I also wouldn’t want to do that if I was older.

bathsh3ba · 14/03/2020 10:22

My parents are mid-60s, my dad in good health but an ex smoker (stopped 15 years ago) and my mum on good health but on medication for high blood pressure (and taking one of the drugs linked with higher risk). They are both retired and practising social distancing but not isolation. They are very independent, could live in different parts of the house and already set up for online shopping as they use it regularly. If I offered to help them they would be offended. Obviously I would offer help from a distance if they became ill.

On the other hand my ex-ILs, my children's other grandparents, have more serious health conditions (she has heart disease and high blood pressure, he has COPD and recently given the all clear from colon cancer) and are not taking it seriously at all. They are still planning to travel from Yorkshire to the south to stay in a hotel and see the kids at Easter with no concept they might need to rethink their plans.

So I agree with the principle we should encourage caution and offer help but not all older people will acquiesce!

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 14/03/2020 10:35

My mum is on lockdown in her care home and appears to be pleased about that And surprisingly chipper.

My dad has declared himself a hermit. When I last spoke to him, my SM hadn’t joined in with the isolation, but she may have changed her mind in the last few days.

MIL is worried about everyone and wants to isolate. FIL is gung ho but I suspect he’ll do what MIL tells him!

DH and I have had no influence over their decisions but we are pleased. The idea that we may never see them again is not sinking in just yet.

minipie · 14/03/2020 10:47

I think we should all be advising our elderly and vulnerable relatives to reduce contact with others as much as they can

Do you think we haven’t already?! My dad is 74 and immunocompromised, he’s especially prone to respiratory illnesses. He’s currently on a ski holiday 🤦‍♀️ which we said was mad but he wouldn’t listen. My 72yr old mum says going to bridge is fine because they all wash their hands. My 82 yr old FIL is on a golf trip in a large hotel. My MIL is 70 and still teaching.

They don’t want to think of themselves as vulnerable. They are used to everything turning out fine.

Tuilipcity · 14/03/2020 11:08

My Mum is 70 and has COPD and whilst it is under control generally she would be very likely to have complications/ not be prioritised. She has only gone out for essential supplies for the last three weeks. She lives in a very densely populated part of a city. Following the recent announcement she is on self imposed isolation in her house /garden for what is likely to be say three months? She doesnt want visitors and will get shopping dropped at her door by delivery or us maybe with jigsaw etc included. She has some good supplies in already, there are likely to be times we cannot do this if in quarantine.

This sounds extreme but it is a few months. We all have a positive attitude about it. Will be phoning and skyping, have already started being 'pen pals' with the children etc.

As time progresses or if we get it and recover perhaps we can review things. However given her high risk status I consider cocooning herself when she did and planning for the long haul is sensible.
Ultimately she considers she is lucky to be able to take these choices without fear of other responsibilities.

By contrast my 94 year old Uncle who was recently widowed is in need of company and is carrying on largely as normal, going to church and having visitors. Obviously no visitors unwell and hand washing, no face touching etc. He cannot use Skype, has poor hearing and a little bit of confusion. Such isolation from people face to face would have a very negative impact on his wellbeing.

I guess I think people and their families should judge for themselves and act accordingly if possible, which it isn't always.

VoyageInTheDark · 14/03/2020 11:26

My parents are in their 70s. My dad has type 2 diabetes and high blood pressure but still works part time and there's no way he would stop working or going out. He can't bear sitting at home and would get depressed I think. Neither of my parents would take advice from me about this and think it's all scare mongering from the media etc.

MillieMoodle · 14/03/2020 11:39

I have grounded my parents Grin they are both in their 70's, dad has cancer and dreadful asthma. Mum has a condition and the drugs she takes suppress her immune system. I told them last night that they are not to leave the house, I will do shopping, collect prescriptions etc. We will speak on the phone and FaceTime, and I will deliver to their doorstep. I'm not sure how seriously they were going to take me, as my mum was planning to go to church on Sunday I told her to pray in the kitchen. I think they appreciate my concern though.

However, they got back off holiday on Thursday and discovered this morning that 2 people in their hotel tested positive for corona virus yesterday. They are now taking it more seriously, self-isolating and keeping an eye on temperature and symptoms. Dad currently has a chest infection and has been told to call 999 if his symptoms worsen.

SuperFurryDoggy · 14/03/2020 12:56

My great aunt is 88 and is doing what would probably be described as cocooning. She is housebound (through choice) anyway and so it’s just social visits and some non-essential appointments that she’s avoiding. We have increased her carer’s hours so she can do all her shopping etc for her. I have been phoning her daily, and we’ve actually had loads more time to chat and have a laugh as home visits tend to be taken up with sorting out household stuff, shopping etc. All stuff her carer has now taken over.

My PIL are much younger (early 70s) but both with health issues that put them at higher risk. They have considered the risks but decided to carry on as before. They only see GC every 2-3 weeks so I will just need to make sure the DC are washing hands, avoiding hugs/kisses and obviously boycotting at any sign of illness. I think/hope they will follow public advise to distance themselves when the virus really takes hold though. I do understand their logic, but still feel worried for them. I also worry about the impact on my own DC if they accidentally gave the virus to them.

eggstrordinaire · 14/03/2020 13:04

They are gambling with older peoples lives. Its a very academic approach and one that lacks a vision. I completely agree we should be encouraging our older loved ones to isolate. My mum is 74 and a care worker still.

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