Just realised why schools are not closing

[NearlyGranny]

Going by the Spanish experience, half the London chatterati would make a dash for their closed-up holiday homes where they would strip our supermarket shelves and no doubt create a virus hotspot among us privileged year-round residents. I'm pretty sure the unmanageable spike we're all fearing would only be hastened by a general school closure.

If we could rely on people isolating at home, it would be a different matter.

On BBC website now, special schools in Belfast to close indefinitely from Monday.

alloutoffucks

And any country that has closed schools has organised care for essential workers. That includes people who work in supermarkets, drivers, bin collectors, etc

What pray tell is the difference between state- provided “organised childcare for essential workers” and “schools”? Why shut down the latter only to go to all the trouble of setting up the former?

Absolutely cringing at the phrase 'chattering classes'

Totally agree with Imdabest1!

My child has low immune and special needs due to his special needs and lack of diet because of his Sensory Processing Disorder. My other son was in hospital in January with Punmonia! I think EVERYONE needs to be protected! Ok, I'm doing our normal weekly shop and not buying in extra because I don't think it's fair however, not all children have a strong immune system.

@formerbabe I barely know any elderly people and have no idea why children should be taken out of school for them.

You and your children might not know any vulnerable people, but other children and families do. The teachers themselves might have health conditions, or their own families might, or they might have caring responsibilities for elderly parents, for example.

Totally agree BlueBrush. X

@Windowboxgardener What pray tell is the difference between state- provided “organised childcare for essential workers” and “schools”? Why shut down the latter only to go to all the trouble of setting up the former?

Because the group of children whose parents are essential workers will be smaller than the total group of children (by some way, I would think). Fewer children in school, perhaps taught by teachers who are less vulnerable, doesn't get rid of the risk, but at least reduces it.

You and your children might not know any vulnerable people, but other children and families do. The teachers themselves might have health conditions, or their own families might, or they might have caring responsibilities for elderly parents, for example.

Children also spread flu and various other viruses. Perhaps you think they should stay at home forever to protect the elderly?

Maybe I missed it, but I tried to read all the thread.

The schools near us are in highly deprived areas. If schools don’t open, many children don’t eat. Summer holidays are hard enough with some young children being left in libraries because parents can’t afford childcare. They go home to neglect and abuse and school is there safe space. The teachers I know are petrified about what will happen to these vulnerable children.

For households on free school meals (many where both parents work), how do they pick up the added burden of doubling their food shop, when so many are on crappy contracts and may be about to lose earnings?

So yes, like HCPs who are expected to carry on, bin men, supermarket workers, some teachers may be asked to provide a skeleton level of teaching/school support for the kids and families who need it. There will be less kids so hopefully less infection.

If they close the schools, a lot of health care workers (not including myself as my children are both over 18) will have to come out of work to look after their children. I feel that the thought of a much depleted health care work force, could be part of the reason why the decision to close schools is being delayed.

@formerbabe Children also spread flu and various other viruses. Perhaps you think they should stay at home forever to protect the elderly?

But there is a vaccine for flu, and vulnerable groups like the elderly or those with asthma, diabetes, heart disease etc, are given the vaccine for free on the NHS. Primary school children are also given the flu vaccine for free, not to protect themselves, but to stop them spreading the flu to others. I pay for the flu vaccine every year so I don't spread it to others in my family. But there is no vaccine for coronavirus.

I get your point. We've just pulled our DCs out of school to protect someone in the family and of course I'm concerned for their education.

I'll put it another way - if you or your DCs ever need the NHS in the next few months, how would you feel about being told you're not a priority because the hospitals are too busy looking after all the elderly people that become infected, if it could have been avoided?

According to a friendly local public health bod, if we shut the schools, the children will likely go to grandparents for childcare which is the last thing you need happening.

So yes, like HCPs who are expected to carry on, bin men, supermarket workers, some teachers may be asked to provide a skeleton level of teaching/school support for the kids and families who need it

I agree and I am from a family of teachers. Nobody I have asked about this minds in the least keeping schools open. They mostly like their job, understand the responsibility of children’s education, welfare and often mental health. They worry about vulnerable children - where they will go and what they will do if there is no school for months. They worry about their GCSE results in the summer.

Only on here have I heard of teachers worrying about catching Covid from a pupil and demanding school closures to protect themselves. There’s a recognition that some staff may be off sick for several weeks and that others will cover or classes may merge. They’ll wing it somehow.

I've thought at long before coronavirus that the elderly are consistently prioritised over children in our society. Makes me mad.

’I've thought at long before coronavirus that the elderly are consistently prioritised over children in our society. Makes me mad.‘

Then you are an idiot 🙄 kids don’t get sick with this. But if your kid gets hit by a car and needs to get care in a hospital overwhelmed by older people with covid-19 you would be going bonkers if a ventilator wasn’t available.

It’s an interesting debate and, as someone who works in education, can say I can’t see an easy answer.
If schools closed, many children go without an education for the foreseeable, as well as (for some) a stable routine, safe space, and a hot meal. It also means there are a lot of people seeking childcare that school inadvertently provides as well as education during term time (especially for the out of school clubs that extend before and after the school day).
However, if schools stay open when a virus is spreading to which there is no current immunity (like there is to a degree with the common cold and the flu where those in need have had their immunisations), schools become a hot bed of viruses no matter how well they are cleaned and disinfected. If you have a school of say ten classes of thirty, only one teacher needs to become unwell and need isolation and a class of thirty children either need to go home for at least a week or be spread out amongst other classes (supply staff can be very hard to come by when there are high levels of absence). A class of thirty quickly becomes a class of thirty three, then a class of thirty seven and so on. The more staff that are unwell, the more unsafe the ratios become and, in my opinion, schools will be forced to close due to this even if the government doesn’t enforce closures.
I think it would be wise for people to plan for this as an eventuality where possible, as I feel it will soon be unavoidable.

Has anyone tried coughing into their elbow? There's a good 12cm gap. I was supposed to go to search for bog roll tomorrow but I'm coughing so DH will have to take D'S instead.

Leaving aside the question of whether the lives of x number of elderly people are more important than the education of y number of children (it's a valid question, and that one could go on all night!), I'll just put this to you. You don't know any elderly people, so it's less personal to you, but lots of children have really important relationships with their grandparents. And being ruthlessly rational about it, consider the hours and hours of unpaid childcare that grandparents give. What happens to the economy without that?

Also remember that it's not just the elderly that are at risk. Personally, I'm balancing the education of my children against the life/longterm health of my husband, their dad.

Then you are an idiot

The elderly are consistently put ahead of children. Look at austerity...it hit children the hardest whereas pensioners were protected. Everyone's up in arms over the tv licence...couldn't give a shit about child benefit though.

Goose 1964, you're supposed to bend the elbow, bringing the hand up to the opposite shoulder! That gives you a nice cul-de-sac of bent arm and folded sleeve to bury your face in while you sneeze.

It's a terrible situation and clearly very difficult for lots of people. My Father is vulnerable due to medication which lowers his immune and is a Father figure to my son with special needs. I'm also helping my neighbours whom have been put in isolation after travelling and they are taking it very seriously which is good. Everyone is in a different situation.

Well I am self employed and have to work month by month to pay my mortgage, scary times. I really want to support the stay at home and everyone isolate but in reality that’s not easy for people that need to work and if schools close it would have such an impact on your working parents that don’t get paid unless they are at work ..

I agree. Schools close and people with start booking airbnbs all round the country (since they can't fly) transferring the visur everywhere!

We can't say "kids don't get sick with this." Sweeping statement.

Just because there haven't been as many cases involving children (that we know of yet,) doesn't mean that children with underlying health issues are also not at risk.

The problem with what happened here in Spain is that they closed the schools in Madrid first. If they had closed all the schools at the same time and locked down the country there wouldn’t have been an issue. At the moment here many people aren’t working because their place of business has closed or are working from home. Only key services workers and staff who work in places like supermarkets, pharmacies, garages etc are still working, so childcare is mostly covered as many of us are at home. I think this will happen in the U.K. soon.