I’m more concerned about the economic fall out than the virus - anyone else?

[ACautionaryTale]

It’s not the virus that scares me but what we will do to our economies and what will be left afterwards.

I was brought up to be pragmatic about death and not avoid it. I know my mother, aunts and uncles and father in law are all high risk should they get it.

I don’t want them to die of course not. However they are mostly over 80 and In reality death is nearer than far regardless.

To a man, they have all pretty much said that they would not want the lives of everyone wrecked to give them a few more years.

I don’t think people calling for a mass shut down actually comprehend what that will do if it goes on for more than a couple of weeks (and that will be bad enough)

After all, worrying about preventable death is just silly, pointless and no one should ever put their own family above the economy.

There is no need to be so snide, you sound ridiculous. Do you worry about all preventable deaths in the same way - do your elderly relatives self isolate during the flu season? Do they never get in a car?
There is a certain amount of destiny in everything that happens. I am worried about my elderly relatives, but if they should die I would not say that their deaths were preventable. Trying to stop the spread of the virus is only partially working, it just isn't possible to halt the spread completely from one day to the next - theoretically, yes, but not in practice. All the people who get ill, even those who die, will not have been killed by an entirely preventable disease.

I am worried about the economic fallout, there is no way of predicting how long it will take for the economy to recover. It's easy to say "it's just money" but money is everyone's means of survival nowadays.
If many families are plunged into poverty for years by this then yes, I do think that the complete economic shutdown will have been excessive, seeing as it mostly benefits people over the age of 70.

But Rain, money saves lives. If the country is plunged into recession that will cost lives. Its jot a simple choice, money or health. You can't have one without the other.

I agree with you op.

Both concern me.
Total shutdown should be done with economic considerations in mind, if it happens.

I’m a police officer and I’m very concerned about the impact of a prolonged lockdown. I work in an extremely deprived, high crime area - people can not afford to prep, they are living pretty much hand to mouth. I think in some areas there is a huge risk of increasing crime and disorder. We’ve had no information so far in relation to how this would be dealt with...will the courts be sitting? Solicitors working? Not to mention that I think large numbers of people just won’t comply with the rules.

I’m concerned about business and the economy too. I do believe that a lockdown of some sort will ultimately become necessary but I don’t think we are there yet. I’m concerned that we will press the button too soon, when in reality any lockdown needs to last for the absolute minimum time to minimise the impact on the economy/jobs. It’s a delicate balance between the public health risk and a massive economic crash.

Yes, Hopefully. I'm not sure why people seem to think lockdown can be declared and the whole country would meekly comply.

I work with troubled teens and the idea that there would be no safeguarding for weeks is very troubling.

I don’t think you understand what is about to happen to the hospitals, especially if the spread isn’t slowed down. There won’t be enough people to give absolutely standard medical care for things like appendicitis or broken leg to people of all ages.
Maybe we should just stop funding medical care for everyone if everyone is so fine with dying. Or stop funding medical care for all over 69s? Will do wonders for the economy.

Personally, I am more worried about the disease. I am in a risk group

But that does not mean I am not detply concerned about the economic and social consequences

I don’t see why this is something that should be ranked, tbh

It shouldn't be ranked - I guess I 'm just annoyed that a lot of people are shouting "shut us down" and "Close the schools" and think it should have been done last week when the economic fall out is going to be horrific.

Its I'm all right jack in reverse.

Great post HopefullyAnonymous I agree that it might happen at some point but we are not there yet. I don't understand why people think a couple of weeks of isolation will actually solve the crisis. I hadn't given any thought to public disorder during lockdown, my God can you imagine the looting and fighting that would ensue.

I'm worried dh will lose his job. Works in manufacturing and company teeters on the brink at the best of times.

We're luckier than most in that I have an equally well paid job. But we'd still lose 50% of household income overnight and at 58yo he's unlikely to find another job. We could pay the bills and eat but would have to make some big sacrifices. We have a dd at uni which is a big expense so things are tight.

It's fair enough to be worried about jobs and the economy etc but it's horrible to say you'd prioritize that over someone's life. Plus if you look at the Italian example it's not just the over 80s you'd be sacrificing. Apparently in some of the hospitals they're not intubating anyone over 60.

How old are you OP, if your mother is in her eighties? Would you sacrifice your own life?

I am not so worried for myself, my life isn't looking like it will improve anyway. However I do worry about other people, and how this is going to end.I think of those who live hand to mouth and are unable to get supplies, the elderly who don't want to die just because they are old, and still have a love of life and want to enjoy what is left of it. Having said that I find myself thinking that if it's your time to go...

Assuming we (as a family) get through unscathed my main concern is that we won't have an income because it has affected the business a great deal already. If the business goes so will our homes and that scares me a lot more than getting ill.

I'm 43 - my mother has me late (only child)

I agree. I'm very concerned about the impact on vulnerable people right now (including me and my parents) but also think that if this goes on too long, we're going to end up with children and families with decades of lost opportunities due to family poverty and/or educational impacts. At what point do these decades of downside start to outweigh the years of life saved by long running delay measures now? I'd think it's probably better to have really tough measures for a short time than this endless half-life...

Yes. £10,000 has been wiped off my pension value.

I'm not more worried about it though. Equally worried is more accurate. It's part of the whole list of things I worry about.

I'm worried sick about the economic impact. I'm physically shaking as all my work has disappeared already (self employed). The anxiety this has caused and my fear for how I'm going to manage in future is crippling.

The government are at a loss I think. Throwing money at the NHS is good , but it's only for the consequences of the Coronavirus as far as I can make out. It was a bit vague on the details about other things that also need money. 10 years of austerity hasn't helped matters.
I am sorry for people trying to make a living and working in any hospitality role is always hard and must be made worse by this recent health crisis as people won't book holidays or trips or eat out , it all has a knock on effect to just about everything. Closing schools causes an even bigger headache for people reliant on it for their children to be somewhere while they are at work etc.

I think the economy will take a while or even years to bounce back and so far the only ones making money must be the toilet roll makers and hand sanitiser companies.
It is worrying and my heart goes out to people who are already feeling the pinch and have to make tough decisions.
Let's hope they find a vaccine soon.

I have to agree with you OP most people who are employed are secure in the knowledge that they will get paid, our employment laws are very strict regarding what they are entitled to. But I would advise anyone who is smugly happy to have an extended holiday to check their contract. Most have a clause that entitles the employer to not pay them if the workplace has to close. I know we do. This is not covered by sick pay. You may be forced to use annual leave to cover compulsory closure. I suspect most employers are reviewing contracts at the moment. No money coming in inevitably means no money out.
The banks have said they will help businesses but the longer lockdown is in place the more precarious businesses become, we need to exercise joined up thinking.
By all means isolate your vulnerable relatives but it may already be too late. It’s going to be a tough few months and I am in a difficult position working in frontline primary health care with a DH with COPD.

You say elderly but it isn't just them who are at risk of death. I am 38 and have been told to stay away from crowds by my consultant due to the risk. I also don't find my 62 year old mother expendable either who is at high risk due to her hypertension.

There needs to be a balance, but I don't think we will avoid a recession now anyway. I desperately need a job at the moment but no one is hiring so I definitely understand struggling. We can't pay our rent if my husband is off and he can't work from home. Local housing allowance comes nowhere near rent.

At some point a shutdown will happen, there won't be an option or the NHS will collapse. We will have younger people dying of other things because doctors are too busy taking care of covid patients or are ill themselves.

I don't know what will happen.

I understand what you're saying OP.

The virus is frightening (my youngest child is in a risk group) but the long term economic impacts are what's keeping me awake. We own a small business which has already been impacted by what's happened over the last few weeks. We're well prepared and I'm sure we can 'ride out' things over the next couple of months. However if this situation lasts in to the summer then we might have to consider making staff redundant and I feel hugely responsible towards them and their families. This is a situation beyond anyone's control and we couldn't have planned to avoid it. We've tried so hard to build a sustainable business and now just have to sit back and watch what happens. I am frightened.

Irish schools closing, just announced. I wonder will the UK follow?

I'm concerned about both. At the moment slightly more concerned about the economic impact that the virus itself.

I was brought up to be pragmatic about death and not avoid it. I know my mother, aunts and uncles and father in law are all high risk should they get it.
I find this part of your post incredibly insensitive though. My dd is 13 years old and has serious respiratory condition. The body that issues information about her condition stated yesterday that people with her condition are at significant risk of severe illness and respiratory decline. If she is to get it, because she's in the high risk group should I be pragmatic about her death and not avoid it? Genuine question because that is what you are stating in your post. There are many many more people who fall into the risk category that just the old. And I can tell you from contact I have with people who fall into the risk category they do not all feel "they would not want the lives of everyone wrecked to give them a few more years."