IF private nurseries shut down?

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So yet another Q about Corona! What IF private nurseries start closing? Are we supposed to still pay upftont fees? My son goes to nursery and if he cant go I cant work so potentially I wont be paid but then would I pay the nursery regardless? How would this supposed to work? i.e. it cost around 70% of my wage to pay the nursery but if we dont pay - we lose our place. I am so confused and scared tbh...

@Strictly1972 yes you are right, I would have to pay the first 4 week either way. Feels really unfair.

I'd rather pay some or all than see them go bust, but I work from home and could still get some work done. Some people just couldn't do that. That's why I think the government need to stop titting about with HS2 and imaginary bridges to Ireland and step up.

@Strictly1972 - But it’s not really any different to me refusing to refund fees to parents on the basis that the nursery will go bankrupt if I do.

The nursery is the easiest to kick to the kerb - one tiny business against a mob of angry parents and the financial industry, basically - so it’s obvious who will win.

But if the childcare industry collapses, everyone will lose in the end.

For me, we could last about 2 weeks using AL.

But past that... we couldnt afford for me to be off work, unpaid and pay nursery.

@EYProvider yes it’s a good point. I’m not sure what I will do tbh. My policies are if I don’t work I don’t charge but this is exceptional circumstances. I would be okay for up to a month fortunately as long as DH can continue to work.

Saying that we couldnt really afford me to be off work unpaid even if we didnt pay nursery tbh.

Nancy, I'm sure one or 2 of my parents would pay, certainly not all of them unfortunately. It would be enough to pay the redundancy / pay for my assistant.

If we refuse to close we will have registration revoked. If we close we can't afford to feed our own kids. There has to be something put in place to support childcare providers. Because if I shit down, that's 7 families who lose childcare and there are no spaces near me.

As a nursery worker with a child who attends the same nursery this has been a really useful thread, thank you. I didn't realise that the insurance companies weren't going to pay out. I was hoping there would be something in place.

I don't know how we'd manage without my wages, though I appreciate parents won't want to pay for a service they're not receiving, I'm one of them! It's a real concern. As is the thought of my low immunity, 'catch it all' dc being in nursery in the event of an outbreak in our area.

There are several of my colleagues I can think of who have relatives with poor health living at home or nearby. You expect to take home the odd cough, tummy bug or head lice but not something that could cause serious harm.

Lots of us are worried about either scenario.

Whilst I understand the poor rates of funded hours, it is possible that that income stream would continue. Afterall the money has already been allocated centrally and say with schools you wouldn't expect the funding to be withdrawn if a school is forced to temporarily shut.

Yet another concerning aspect of all this which I had not even considered.
We use a registered CM who has a number of assistants and works from a rented house where she does not live - bit of a unique setting. I don't know what the contract says, but I believe we don't pay when they close. Obviously there is nothing corona-specific in it...
If they close, and expect us to pay, we would be draining our meagre savings / going into debt to do so. One of us would have to stay home, neither job can be done from home. Neither employer would pay under those circumstances. Assuming our employers remain open for business, continued absence would likely result in disciplinary action for my DH, who has already had a ton of time off sick and with sick DC and in loss of hours going forward for tenuously employed on a sessional lecturing contract me. There would come a point where we would literally be unable to pay further bills.

So if they close and we refuse to pay, we would lose the places for our DC. Would still have to deal with aforementioned work issues. Would need to find new childcare arrangements, settle two toddlers in to new surroundings. Nowhere is going to be able to offer me the flexibility I get from the current setting, which I wholly rely on.

If they close, and some people pay and some people don't pay and we decide to somehow pay... what if they end up folding anyway? They have rent, utilities, staffing costs, insurance to meet. We could pay for the next 2 months for childcare we can't use only for THEIR reserves to run out.

I suppose all I can do is hope it does not come to this, as there is quite literally no good outcome.

No I wouldn't pay and I would refuse to pay. I understand if he is unwell that's fine (as it is clearly in their contractual agreement) but with this hysteria about coronavirus, it will no doubt close for quite some time. Therefore I will just remove him indefinitely and go elsewhere. If you're not providing a service that I am PAYING you for, regardless of whether it is to do with coronavirus or not, then why should I pay? Nursery is primarily so that parents can go to work. If nursery is closed - parents can't go to work so they are also losing money.

There has to be some options in between otherwise there is going to collapse of the childcare system.

I agree with an up thread post about nurseries working out their absolute costs (possibly with staff on slightly reduced salaries) and only charging for that.

I think even if nurseries are closed childmindwrs will be okay with a small group of children. Can the government force through legislation for quick set up of nursery nurses working as childminders?

Or maybe the forced closure will still allow, say, up to 3 in a class.

Not all parents can’t afford to pay. I will be able to ‘work from home’ (albeit will be doing most of that in the evenings if this is the case), teachers will be able to pay. Maybe nurseries can offer a payment plan to those who cannot afford it.

No easy decisions.

My mum has auto immune conditions and works as a nursery teacher; a couple of years away from retirement; I am concerned her nursery won’t shut unless absolutely forced to, and her inability to say no to her boss will mean she carried on working despite the risk.

@Bovneydazzlers - What do you mean by ‘absolute costs’?

The absolute costs are the money it costs to pay staff and rent. There is nothing left when you take this away.

Parents seem to think that nursery owners are running small empires. Nothing could be further from the truth. Once the staff and the rent has been paid, nurseries just about break even. There’s been many a time where I have had to sell furniture, etc, to pay staff wages on a month where an unexpected bill has come in.

There is absolutely no wiggle room for cutting back.

EY provider:
There will be (admittedly small) savings for food/electricity/consumables, also if nurseries agreed pay between ssp and full pay for the time of closure. I’m not sure where you got from my post that I believed nurseries are rolling in profit.

I’d suggest some nursery nurses may want to ‘babysit/nanny’ for individual parents during the time.

This guide is not very helpful. I’m also concerned that it says if someone in the setting has coronavirus, it doesn’t mean closure.
www.eyalliance.org.uk/coronavirus-info-for-nurseries

There's a legal scenario called force majeure where there is a clause which protects against companies such as insurance companies paying out in the event of something unforeseen. This might be the case with Coronavirus.

@TobyeBella - Yes, that is the get out clause that the insurance companies are using.

It’s across the board, by the way, not just for nurseries.

@Bovneydazzlers - You don’t understand. You seem to think there is money in the pot, but if no fees are coming in, how could any nursery provider agree to pay between full pay and SSP?

I will have no money myself - how could I pay anyone else? What with?

EYprovider - as I said in my post; I do think nurseries will have to keep charging; many parents will be able to keep paying. But there will be a few parents who really can’t, and a few costs that can be saved (more if staff aren’t on a full wage packet). I don’t have any easy answers; but we should absolutely prepare nurseries to have to close in the next mont - the trajectory of the virus is too deadly, and too awful to not do this when the time comes.

It seems though from the limited wording given the insurance companies, not just in nursery settings, are not paying as Covid 19 is not a notifiable disease. I would imagine the government will move to make it a notifiable disease (eventually). It would be easier to prop up the insurers in a similar fashion to the banks in 2008 than lot and lots of small businesses. The point about funded places is also a good point- there may be a deal whereby the government continues funding that whilst asking insurers to pick up the rest. Or continues paying to try to keep the industry afloat not that that will cover all costs. I know it’s a lot of maybes though. However ultimately they need nurses, police etc all working and will have to factor this into emergency plans. Particularly given many grandparents will likely not be able/ willing to help.

@catanddogmake6 - No, the insurance companies are not paying out whether the illness is classed as notifiable or not.

It’s because they would otherwise go bankrupt. They don’t care that the childcare industry will go bankrupt instead.

I suppose nurseries could tell parents not to expect refunds on the basis that they would otherwise go bankrupt. What’s the difference after all?

It’s such a nightmare scenario. My DP is self employed and already most of his work has been cancelled this month. I’m starting mat leave in a month so for us we won’t be able to pay nursery if it closes. We won’t have money coming in so how would we pay? Hope the government sorts insurance out or we will just have to lose our place.

This is a really tricky one and hinges on if we are still getting paid from work.

We dont have family who can look after our toddler, but if I am not getting paid or only get SSP we cannot pay our nursery fees. We simply cannot afford it, it's a nursery place or a roof over our head. I understand nurseries are running on ultra tight margins but so am I.

If I am still getting paid or can swap hours so I work opposite ends to my husband I would still pay even if I cant use the space.

I hope this thread gets picked up by the media actually so that the insurance companies can be named and shamed.

What will happen to the country if the childcare industry collapses? It’s unthinkable.

I’m a teacher, If I continue to get paid I wouldn’t mind paying the nursery if they are closed but I can understand anyone who works in a job where they will not be paid is a big worry.

Should schools close too I meant.

If the nursery is closed then I’ll have to be at home and I won’t get paid. But my Husband is the higher earner so as long as he gets paid we are ok.

But I really feel for people who if they don’t get paid are worrying about paying their rent / mortgages, never mind their nursery fees

I get it, I really do. If you work in a nursery and PHE says it must close then you must be paid. But the salaries come from the fees...