The army is warning the settlers around Gaza that in the coming hours they will hear a series of massive explosions in Gaza.

[Wedonttalkaboutboris]

60,000 reserve soldiers have been called up starting tomorrow for the Gaza operation.

'Important to note that Hamas accepted a ceasefire proposal just 3 days ago and Israel has responded with terrorism'

You're getting mixed up. The IDF aren't terrorists. Hamas & co are the terrorists. Fixed that for you.

People like to draw comparisons with the IRA when they are not comparable. Over 25 years the IRA "only" killed 1700 people, including roughly 1,000 members of the British security forces.

Hamas killed about 1,200 people in one day, most of them were civilians.

The IDF do protect terrorists though. Let’s at least be honest about that.

You think the UK bombing Belfast would be analogous to Israel bombing Gaza? Do you even own a map?

Wow. Just wow.

The point of the analogy isn’t about whether it’s Dublin or Belfast- it’s about how absurd it would be to bomb civilians as ‘retaliation.’ 1200 murdered civilians is horrific, but collective punishment of 2 million people is not proportionate, it’s illegal.

And Gaza’s size makes evacuation impossible- people are told to move, then bombed in the place they fled to, with sealed borders leaving nowhere safe. That’s not self-defence, it’s the mass targeting of civilians.

@Gloriia On the evacuation side of things, it’s also important for us all to remember these are people who have lived through two years of war. This isn’t the first time they have been displaced. They are known to be undernourished/starving. There will be injured and sick people. Hospitals are being told to evacuate.

Asking 2m sick, injured, vulnerable (very young and old), traumatised people to walk out into the heat with the promise of tents (surely the right thing to do is build the camps and then move people to them?) isn’t the most humanitarian thing I’ve heard. Evacuating hospitals when the rest have been flattened is a death sentence to many sick people.

This isn’t some great humanitarian gesture. It’s most likely just ticking a box so when they do bomb Gaza City, they can say they told everyone to leave so they are absolved of any responsibility for the people who didn’t (couldn’t?) leave.

In the early hours of yesterday morning, Israel bombed a forced displacement camp in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza. The video footage is apocalyptic, you can see the crater of the bomb. The camp was been completely destroyed, leaving widespread devastation.

This wasn’t just another conflict zone being hit- it was a shelter for over 200 already displaced families.

Israel ordered them to leave, then bombed where they’d been told to go.

Aid agencies warn there’s simply nowhere safe left in Gaza. That’s not civilian ‘collateral’- that’s a policy forcing displacement and destruction.

MSF Doctors Without Borders) said the forced displacement is “inhumane” and that people have “nowhere left to go”- worsening disease, overcrowding, and sanitation crises. United Nations and Red Cross have raised alarms that new offensives (especially in already overcrowded central Gaza) will lead to a full-scale humanitarian catastrophe.

The WHO facilities in Deir al-Balah were attacked, which severely disrupted medical and humanitarian operations. Staff were detained, and infrastructure damaged.

Over 50,000–80,000 people in Deir al-Balah were told to evacuate, with 87.8% of Gaza under evacuation or declared military zones-
leaving just 12% of safe space for 2.1 million people.

The pattern has been chilling: evacuation orders issued, followed by bombing- leaving civilians with no safe place to go and increasing their vulnerability dramatically.

Do I own a map? Says you who was going on about Dublin and Cork regarding a conflict in another country.

I won't say 'wow just wow' as there's nothing wow about any of this.

'The point of the analogy isn’t about whether it’s Dublin or Belfast- it’s about how absurd it would be to bomb civilians as ‘retaliation.’

If someone murdered 100s at Glastonbury and took hundreds hostage then those responsible would of course face dire consequences.

Sadly civilian casualties are a consequence of starting a war.

As we've said the IDF at least warn them and give them chance to evacuate which is far more then the poor victims of Oct 7th got.

And matches what Smotrich said the plan was back in May - force them all into a tiny area, destroy Gaza so they have nothing left to stay for and no hope and then tell them to live somewhere else...

The IRA and Hamas are both terrorist organisations that use force to achieve political aims so the comparison is valid. The only reason people bristle at the comparison is because it brings home just how insane and disproportionate the military response is.

Nevertheless it appears that you see hundreds of civilian deaths by terrorist actions as not justifying the carpet bombing of non-combatants, but thousands does. Where's the actual dividing line for you? 1,500 over 10 years? 2,000 over 3? 3,436 in 4 years, 3 months? 28,000 over a century?

Exactly how many deaths caused by terrorism over what period of time is the tipping point for you personally to justify turning the civilian population of a city into refugees and then razing it to the ground?

So if the IRA murdered hundreds at Glastonbury and took hundreds more hostage we'd be justified in carpet-bombing Dublin? Is that your position?

And what about the 2m people who have lost everything - family, homes, access to food and medical care. Who’a loved ones are dismissed as casualties of war/collateral damage.

What if they choose to retaliate to the widespread bombing of their whole country - what would be a proportionate reaction from those 2m displaced people?

'surely the right thing to do is build the camps and then move people to them?'

You would think hamas and their Qatar funders would be doing this wouldn't you look after the civilians hut nope, they seem to like blowing their billions on weapons.

And they often haven’t warned them and given them a chance to evacuate.

Or, Israel orders them to leave- then bombs where they’ve been told to go.

Why not Israel? They’re neighbours. Palestinian civilians aren’t their enemy, right? So why not provide shelter for the people your army are displacing? To me, that would make sense with all the ‘we’re saving you from Hamas’ chat. Surely you try to look after the people you’re saving?

If the IRA murdered hundreds <in one day, they did murder hundreds spread over the whole conflict> and abducted hundreds of innocent people that they then tortured for years then yes I'd imagine Belfast (Dublin is another country as I said) would have suffered serious consequences if the terrorists were hiding in underground tunnels.

There are miles of tunnels under gaza how do you think they are to be destroyed unless through bombing? Maybe you could email hamas and ask them to stop using them?

Anyway, this ira comparison is silly.

How about we talk about the wide spread devastation in Yemen and Syria, conflicts which are actually relevant?

Just to be clear, according to the IDF, the bombing doesn’t actually destroy the tunnels. They’re way too deep and well built. The flattened civilian buildings then have to cleared with bulldozers so the IDF can access the tunnels to search and destroy them. They still have to then check for booby traps, IEDs etc. using drones where possible to protect soldiers.

So the flattening perhaps makes the IDF’s job easier in some respects but at what cost to civilians? Because the bombs aren’t doing the actual destroying. They are sacrificing all of Gazas homes and infrastructure for military reasons. And that’s why the military and the Israeli government need to compensate the people of Palestine by offering them reliable shelter and food and making some effort to protect things like hospitals.

Why are they bombing camps filled with 200 displaced families then?

Why are their drones striking children, multiple times?

If the goal was truly to “destroy tunnels” or target combatants, Israel could still do so with precision while protecting civilians: evacuate people before strikes, establish safe zones, and allow food and medical aid in. Instead, we’re seeing the exact opposite- deliberate deprivation, destruction of homes and hospitals, and mass civilian suffering. The existence of tunnels doesn’t justify punishing over 2 million people, including 1.1 million children. Civilian protection is not optional. it’s a legal and moral obligation.

The only point of comparison is that they are both terrorist organisations. Apart from that it's a ridiculous comparison as again, the IRA killed 1,700 people over 25 years not 1,200 in one day.

Kill 1,200 UK or US innocent civilians in a one day massacre and see what happens.

The bombing clears the ground which is necessary before the tunnels can be accessed and then destroyed. So it is a necessary part of the process.

I agree that they are sacrificing all of Gazas homes and infrastructure for military reasons but that is what they need to do to destroy the tunnels. It's an unusual war in that other armies don't hide in tunnels under civilian structures (including hospitals) which is making destroying Hamas a logistical nightmare.

And yes, I agree that the Israeli government ought to be providing sufficient food and shelter for the people displaced.

I guess it’s the scale of destruction that I question and whether a less widespread approach would still enable the necessary access to the network. If the bombing was destroying the tunnel system, the widespread bombing would make more sense to me in a way. I assume I’ll have to wait a while for some analysis of this - as you say, it’s an unusual type of warfare and time will tell if it was the ‘right’ approach.

Even putting aside the tunnels, we’re seeing drones striking civilians at aid distribution points, children in water queues, and other places where civilians have no ability to defend themselves. These aren’t collateral damage from military operations. Theyre predictable consequences of targeting areas where civilians are known to be. That’s what makes it a clear violation of international humanitarian law.

To attempt to describe the IRA comparison as "silly", to try to pretend that the valid comparison to Israel bombing Gaza is one in which the UK ends up bombing the UK (🙄), and to then finish off with some blatant and irrelevant whattabout-isms, shows just how desperate you are to try to distract attention away from the Israeli government's clear agenda of wholesale displacement of entire populations under threat of arms to make way for the expansion of territory.

You've made your position very clear. You don't have to keep digging the same hole.

You seem to be suggesting that the IRA's bodycount is insufficient to justify the carpet-bombing of Dublin but Hamas's is sufficent to justify the carpet-bombing of Gaza. What's the actual number of non-combatants killed over what time period that you think tips the balance between insufficient to sufficient?