Israeli Hostage - I hope she can deal with her mental wounds

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68891217

I am glad at least some journalists have not forgotten what the Hamas hostages went through and this woman's experience is terrifying. It is incredibly brave for her to speak out and I think the narrative that hostages were and are being treated well needs to end.

Let's hope the remaining hostages get home 🇮🇱

What exactly did I say that was “disgusting “?

I agree. And your last paragraph shows such respect and compassion when talking about an individual. Thank you.

I apologise if I read this wrong but did no one else read the reference to the intimate searches as sexual assault? I thought that was what she was referring to.

i think however you stand on this conflict, it is wrong to minimise the suffering and the truth of innocent victims - Israeli and Palestinian people. I feel so sorry that the horror of 7th October has been lost in the horror of what has followed. It doesn’t harm any calls for peace or a ceasefire -or even the acknowledgment that the response by Israel has been disproportionate and may amount to war crimes - to acknowledge the truth of what happened, and what continues to happen, to the Israeli citizens caught up in this war. This ‘hostages were treated well’ nonsense needs to die. Moran did not deserve this. Hind Rajab did not deserve this. Maya Regev did not deserve this. Baby Sabreen and her family did not deserve this.

It isn’t wrong to feel heartbroken for people on both sides of this conflict.

@mollyfolk

Do they though? How many times are hostages and victims of October 7th are mentioned at one of the protests that are popping uo?

“This was actually the original point being made by adamryan: how did she end up saying something nonsensical and out of context? was pressure put on her to say it? “

Can I just clarify my understanding of your position- You think the hostage’s account was “nonsensical “ and are suggesting words were put in her mouth because you believe accounts of sexual assault against hostages are probably Israeli propaganda. ?

Have I misunderstood your point?

Absolutely agree

How many protests gave you attended to know if Palestinian victims are mentioned at pro Israel protests or if Israeli victims are mentioned at Pro Palestinian protests ? Someone on another thread posted about a vigil for the Israeli hostages, should I assume because they had no signs about the 1000s of Palestinians being abused and held in detention without charge that they don't care? Or that they don't care about the 10s of 1000s of Palestinians killed supposedly in order to get those hostages home? People can and do care about more than one thing at a time.

She says ‘rape is a big word….’ She experiences the intimidation of the staring as a rape.

Language evolves, the definition of rape evolves, it is offensive to me, as a rape victim, to see people squabbling over the words a traumatised woman has used to describe her experiences.

She feels violated by her experiences- she was intimately searched, powerless, in fear of rape and murder, in the hands of enemies.

She is allowed to goose a word that expresses her feelings of violation.

I have had a man explain to me that some rapes are worse than others. He might have wanted a range of words to apply to non violent rapes, coercive rapes, rapes the victim can’t remember as they were spiked, rapes called so because the willing victim was unable to consent….

Rape is indeed a big word.

As a rape survivor, I won’t police the language of a traumatised woman. And I judge those who do.

I re-read the article. I know it is her own words talking of an unimaginable event, but I find it very confusingly worded. I wonder if there is an element of caution to protect those who are still being held, as she alleges that both hostage and hostage-taker would be killed?

You said the trauma of being held hostage for 54 days was akin to the trauma of being raped.

I don't know why the ever present spectre of sexual violence is present in all these posts. Rape is traumatic. Being held hostage is traumatic. I don't understand the constant desire to raise sexual violence in these accounts as if being held hostage isn't bad enough.

As (another) survivor of sexual assault I find it extremely distasteful. Actually I would say my own sexual assault was in no way as traumatic as being held hostage in a war zone for 54 days would be.

No - I most definitely did not describe her trauma as akin to a rape. It’s absolutely not my place to describe other people’s trauma for them. The hostage victim used the word rape . I am simply trying to defend her right to tell her account in her own way without being accused of being “ nonsensical “ or of having words put in her mouth.

I am sorry that you have experienced sexual assault and I understand that that might mean some words are triggering for you . This thread is probably not the best place for a discussion about the mis use of the term rape as it involves the account of an actual individual. If you want to have this discussion I think it is better to create a different thread - and don’t criticise the words of hostages but instead criticise the language of the media or politicians.

How do I criticise the media without using the media accounts from actual hostages as an example?

I think you should reflect on your motives if you find yourself wanting to criticise the testimony and language used by hostages/ victims ( whether Israeli or Palestinian)
Maybe your time would be better spent criticising the wrong doer rather than the victim.

criticise the wrongdoer (in this case Hamas)
Exactly Limesodaagain @AdamRyan is victim blaming.

Err what? Victim blaming who?

It seems like the narrative of the hostages is drowned out but they are incredibly powerful stories.

It must have cut to the core to have to smile at your captors when released and were Hamas ever under the delusion the true stories wouldn't emerge.

The stories also act as a reminder this is a conflict with two parties and one party started the aggression currently and there are so many (maybe not on this board) that want to destroy that perspective.

Leaving aside the semantics of the actual word used please remember she’s speaking in a second or third language. Most native English speakers forget that it is unrealistic to hold a non-native speaker to the same standards linguistically as a native speaker. As others have said she has tried to express her trauma, and doing so in another language. Those offended on this thread I bet have English as their first language? I suggest you try to imagine expressing something extremely emotive and traumatic in a different language to be judged by native speakers of that language. Are you sure you’d be perfect?

I understood perfectly well what she was saying, she was expressing her violation, objectification, degradation and humiliation even if she used a word I might not have used to describe the same. She should be thanked for sharing her story not criticized for her semantics.

I think she was speaking truthfully about what it feels like to be constantly under the power of a man guarding you with a gun, staring at you in a way that is normally not done just because he has the power, his constant changes of mood, and never knowing where you stand - so you can never relax for a second. She was not raped, but there seems to have been feeling of a sexual undercurrent to the guarding coming from the uncertainty and the power imbalance. I cannot imagine how dreadful it must have been.

The protests are directed towards the UK’s government support of Isreal. Marching in London for the release of the hostages will do nothing.

There are extremists on both sides - absolutely, that is clear to see. But it is also clear that many people and prominent voices showing solidarity with Palestinian’s and who are also empathetic with Israeli victims and bring a message of peace and dialogue.

There is never an excuse for deliberate attacks on civilians in conflict.