There are good reasons for avoiding talk of this conflict in schools

[mids2019]

Schools in England accused of closing down debate on Israel-Gaza conflict https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/29/schools-england-accused-closing-down-debate-israel-gaza-conflict?CMP=share_btn_url

If we wish pupils to discuss this conflict in schools it should be added to history lessons as part of modern history with an unbiased appraisal of the complex nature of the middle East especially post WW2. As say discussion about WW1 or the Napoleonic wars the conflict should be put into context of wider global geopolitical pressures with a nuanced analysis with importantly no bias.

What we don't want and I think the article below implies are discussions where pupils get to rant about 'evil Israel' and a school sanctioned display of Palestinian solidarity which some children may feel will allow them to express anti Semitic sentiment. I could easily see a passionate class pupil lead discussion leading to some pupils saying the problem couk d be solved as not having Israel in the first place and criticise Britian in its role in the formation of Israel. We have to avoid this.

Teachers are right to not want to allow discussion on class where tanti Semitic or anti Israel views could be be openly expressed with little sanction. Schools have quite rightly very severe policies on discrimination and racism and it would be easy for the pupils or even a teacher to overstep the mark in these areas.

We also have to consider the feelings of Jewish and Muslim children who may feel they may be targets for bullying as a result of these 'discussions'.

I fully support school decisions to not allow formal discussion of this topic currently though we do discuss the events of October 7th and the resultant war in my home with the aid of reputable media and valid wider historical context.

This is becoming quite black and white on this thread.

It's not that it's unacceptable to discuss any current affairs ever. It's that there is a time and a place and professional judgement is required before wading into historically highly complex, fast evolving, highly emotive topics.

I'd not want my DC to have their lessons disrupted by poorly facilitated, off topic debates about issues that most of the class, and likely the teacher, has a limited knowledge of and where misinformation or soundbites are likely to be parroted, so I don't put other people's children in that situation.

I think we have many teachers quite eloquently stating reasons for the difficulties of such discussions and I feel it is important to hear their voices as I am sure in some schools there will be calls for debate as well as open display of symbols of protest.

I have had discussions with people who feel aggrieved their child is learning about Richard 3rd when at this current time history is in the making and there is a humanitarian disaster in the middle East which in their opinion is of more importance to their child's rounded education Teacher as do feel pressure I am sure and I have no envy of their poaition.

I think it is important counselling is available to individuals who may be unduly effected by this war (or any war) as possibly some of the images from the conflict may have a psychological impact on going minds.

I think schools should be vigilant about excessive gossip in the out of class space in case there is talk that could lead to bullying but I guess this is extremely difficult.

another point is that is ultimately a foreign war thousands of miles away in a dangerous world. If Britian were facing attack then maybe things would change and there maybe more scope for discussion but luckily that is not the case and let's hope it remains the cases for decades.

This conflict is NOT thousands of miles away, as it is actively endorsed by our leaders who we have voted for and are supposed to speak in our name. If no conversation can be held about the harms of colonialism then children will grow up saying “we didn’t know”, sounds familiar?

I think schools should be vigilant about excessive gossip in the out of class space in case there is talk that could lead to bullying but I guess this is extremely difficult
My experience is that schools generally try to do this (as in vigilant about bullying and excessive gossip, not stopping normal discussion).

It's much easier to do this if you've not got students arriving to your lesson straight after lunch all worked up because Mr/Mrs Smith let them debate something that someone saw on Tiktok instead of doing their work and very different versions of the discussion are being shared at lunchtime.

@Faraway93

ultimately this a democracy and our leaders make decisions on our behalf and personally this should be respec ted. Everyone has the right to vote for a candidate that offers a vision of foreign policy they would support.

I think highlighting young people's democratic rights and the function of our parliamentary system is importnat. There is a role for schools in this.

@LolaSmiles

I completely agree but there may be pressure on some schools in teachers of a child or group of children start demanding debate because they feel it is important in their lives for various reasons. I would think a teacher would have to be quite firm and give good reasons for not having such discussions (the reasons being clearly stated in this thread)

Then if you have dc discuss it with them over the dinner table.
teachers have syllabuses to teach, exams to prepare for, endless safeguarding pastoral issues since there have been huge cuts in adolescent mental health and social services.
Its NOT OUR JOB to sit down and decide who’s right/wrong on a particular current affairs issue.

Which we do. It is citizenship and part of PSHE and a statutory requirement for schools to cover.

To the parents aggrieved that their children are learning about Richard III in history lessons…
Firstly it’s a history lesson. History.
Secondly if they turn up to their history gcse and start writing about the Middle East when actually the question is on the wars of the roses…they’re not going to get a very good grade.

If they want to discuss these things at lunchtime they can. I think they are discussing it a bit, which is good, but not extensively as they are teenagers who are also worrying about who fancies them, what they are wearing and who posted what on TikTok/snapchat/whatever last night. as long as they aren’t rude or deliberatel try to upset another student then they can talk about what they like! It’s none of my business.

if parents want to discuss these things at home then great, go for it. Raise politically engaged citizens. Wonderful. But don’t criticise a history teacher for simply trying to get their students through the syllabus and not suddenly giving up time to an unfolding and complicated issue.

Exactly.
This is an issue for parents to explain/ discuss with their children.

If schools are willing for this issue to be discussed on their premises and in their time, and they are confident in handling it, then that’s fine as far as I’m concerned.

@MissyB1

who makes the call though? Is this a decision for the head of governing body or do individual teachers make the decision (not that they really have time)?

There Is a real danger of a teacher or pupil saying the wrong thing in such an emotive and divisive topic that they could end up on a sticky wicket professionally or from a disciplinary perspecrive.

if the school gets complaints (which they may very well do) I would make sure who is accountable and how decisions were made in this.

Its absolutely ok to boo JRM for his views on Gaza - he is an elected politician and has to take the flak his opinions create ( as long as not violent obv) In a school context- with potentially vulnerable young people who come from one or other of the affected communities- a discussion about this could go very badly wrong. Even if the teacher was skilled in managing the situation in the classroom it could spill out into lunchtime or after school.
As has been said - this is unfolding and complicated-emotions are running very high ( and adolescent emotions are volatile anyway) combine that with online highly emotive content and potential misinformation and you have a complete tinderbox ready to explode.

ultimately this a democracy and our leaders make decisions on our behalf and personally this should be respec ted.
It is exactly because we live in a democracy that we don't have to agree with "our leaders"' decisions and can make our feelings known through marches/protests and strikes.

Totally agree. Leads to more hate and doesn't solve anything.

I think that debates on this subject would polarise the issue even more - its interesting that my comments on this board have mentioned the complexities and faults on both sides which I would view as quite neutral but I have been then targeted because I do not support a particular view. If adults are taking this stance I think it is a topic due to its complexities and tensions should be kept out of the classroom.

If handled well there are few topics that can’t be discussed in the classroom (of course considering age, developmental stage, etc). It is vital that young people learn to be able to tolerate the viewpoints of others. Not doing so is how prejudice festers. You need to learn to listen to views with which you don’t agree.
Former teacher here and would often encourage discussion and certainly found time for it in my role as tutor (especially Y13).
Also relevant within the curriculum for my subject.
I do worry about the direction of things when discussion is shut down due to worries about people being offended and allegations etc. It really is a sad state of affairs that discussion and debate is equated with hate speech / aggression / allegations.
It goes without saying that the skill of the person facilitating discussion is important. It is certainly nothing to do with expressing an opinion and when facilitating discussion it is not appropriate to disclose a firm view one way or another without being sympathetic to both sides.

Thank you @CurlyWurly1991 , I agree.

@CurlyWurly1991

I agree but with the current state of the Gaza conflict can I respectfully suggest this may not be the correct time for people to appreciate other points of view? I think the importance of respectful disagreement in society is extremely important but I fear any debate on Gaza could very possibly lose that respect given the heightened emotions around this topic. I doubt many teachers would have the confidence or inclination to lead what come become a very fractious and potentially discriminatory debate.

We do need discussion about what constitutes hate crime or speech and I think that there is the distinct possibility of inexperienced debater s making utterances that would be construed in a school setting of inciting hatred or being discriminatory. You could have examples of minimization of the events of October 7th or trivializing the impact of Israel's military action which could be incredibly offensive as well as wrong and help deepen tension between communities and lead to in some cases actual physical violence. We have to have due regard to safeguarding.

One of my many fears with the idea of talking about this issue in schools, is the thought that Jewish children may come under pressure to denounce Israel/Israeli government in order to prove to other students that they're a "good one". I am a non practising Jew with a British surname.... unless you know me very well you wouldn't know. When the war started I told my dc to never mention their heritage. I have a very shy, quiet teenage DD. She knows very little about the conflict and the history. I don't want her to feel like she has to prove herself to others based on something that she doesn't even understand or have anything to do with.

Not sure I articulated that brilliantly but I hope you understand.

But at my DC's school, they did the same thing with this conflict as they did with the Russia/Ukraine conflict.... basically talked to the children about tolerance and respect within the school community.... without actually getting into the ins and outs of the situations. I think this is the best approach.

@CurlyWurly1991 “It goes without saying that the skill of the person facilitating discussion is important. It is certainly nothing to do with expressing an opinion and when facilitating discussion it is not appropriate to disclose a firm view one way or another without being sympathetic to both sides. “ Absolutely agree with you but @mids2019 is right that in the current context many pupils have family members involved in this conflict- emotions and tensions are running very high. It would be very difficult for even the most skilled facilitators to be sure this wouldn’t end in tears and anger and possibly repercussions outside school.
@CurlyWurly1991 I don’t know what sort of school you taught in or how long ago - but inner city comprehensive schools with diverse communities present a different set of challenges to schools in privileged or more country areas with a less diverse intake .
I hope posters on here who disagree understand that teachers are trying to protect pupils and teachers in this as one mis step in such a volatile situation could have horrible consequences.

@Limesodaagain
100% agree with you

It’s very different. People blame Putin for the invasion of Ukraine - not Russians in general. Russian people over here are far less likely to experience the equivalent of Islamophobia or anti Semitism.But I absolutely agree with you - an assembly on the terrible crisis in Gaza and the terrorism of October 7th could focus on the need for compassion for all victims and the need for respect for differences without taking sides.

@Comedycook

I am for you experience.

I think your experiences highlights the fact people are not trying to avoid debate because of fear of hurt feelings but realise there are tangible effects on people's lives due to this foreign issue.

you have told your children to not mention it hide their heritage as a result of the war and if you are in the UK I personally feel this is disturbing that you feel you need to go to cub lengths to hide a possible essential part of your idenitity.

another reason for avoiding divisive debate in schools?