The double standards of free speech on Palestine amid Israel’s war on Gaza

[Ohlalalalala]

On UpFront, Marc Lamont Hill speaks to Dima Khalidi, director of Palestine Legal, and Ilan Pappe, renowned author and professor of history at Exeter University, about the limits to free speech on the Israel-Gaza war.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/upfront/2023/10/27/the-double-standards-of-free-speech-on-palestine

As the war in Gaza continues, why is the West cracking down on free speech?
A battle is playing out in the realm of public opinion on Israel’s war on Gaza.

While demonstrations have taken place across the globe in solidarity with Palestinians, there have been campaigns to silence critics of Israel’s actions.

Commentators, academics and even common citizens have reported increasing threats and retaliation for expressing their views or voicing solidarity with the Palestinian people, often in countries that proclaim to uphold values of freedom of expression and democracy.

I absolutely agree with this...

Agreed

Rishi Sunak sacks senior Tory aide for calling for Gaza ceasefire

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sunak-paul-bristow-gaza-ceasefire-b2438564.html

Sacked for calling for a ceasefire for humanitarian reasons!

You can keep your position as long as you side with those responsible for a genocide. In other words you have to be complicit with crimes against humanity to be part of our government! I despair!

Western coverage of Israel’s war on Gaza – bias or unprofessionalism?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/29/western-coverage-of-israels-war-on-gaza-bias-or-unprofessionalism

@SeeReality this is true. But people also do it. Because they can't be assertive.

I’m gobsmacked at politicians who dare to call for a ceasefire getting sacked!! Theres at least one each from Tories and Labour I believe. Is that how far we have sunk now in Britain??? That we can’t ask for people to stop killing each other? That we can’t ask for a Country to stop dropping bombs on kids? That asking for lives to be saved loses you your job?!

It’s extremely shameful and deeply worrying that showing basic humanity will get you punished.

I'm pro-Israel but also find the idea of firing someone for calling for a ceasefire bizarre. Are we sure there's not more to it?

No I don’t think there was more to it, apparently it’s because they broke the party line.

There is something very concerning and totalitarian about a country seeking to train young people to be fervently and unquestioningly defensive of a country and everything that their government decides to do.

I realise that, as countries go, the UK - as a partial democracy (we are never allowed to elect or peacefully protest against our ultimate leader) - is one of the most privileged ones that I could have been born in.

That doesn't mean that I will automatically defend it on everything, without ever questioning or vehemently disagreeing with a great deal that the government (of any political colour) does and believes.

That doesn't mean that I will cheerfully accept and condone bombs being dropped on Afghan children because the government fabricates a 'justification' why these children need to die to 'pay for' the actions of adult Saudi terrorists.

Why is North Korea considered such a pariah state, when some of its core ideals are clearly so warmly embraced and encouraged by countries that like to insist to us that they are somehow progressive western democracies?

No I don’t think there was more to it, apparently it’s because they broke the party line.

Wow. So the official party line is that children must be killed (on either side) and anybody who has a problem with that is being outrageous? Chilling.

It makes you wonder what other 'principles' some of our top politicians may have, and what they may have been up to, whereby anybody who isn't willing to call black 'white', up 'down' or east 'west' - or who denies that the emperor is fully dressed - in criticising them for shameful behaviour must be censured.

No, the official party line is that a ceasefire will be detrimental to Israel at this point as it will give Hamas a much-needed chance to regroup so they can attempt another 7/10 in the future, just like they've openly said they will.

I personally agree with that party line on this occasion. I don't often agree with the Tories 🙃

I don't agree that an MP should be fired for disagreeing with it though. That seems absolutely bizarre. I think individuals should be allowed to call for a ceasefire if that's what they think is right.

Then I think it's a bonkers decision 🤷🏻‍♀️

But however good or bad the reasons for that party line, it IS predicated on children being killed.

Even if that is deemed sadly necessary for the greater good, it is, as you say, still outrageous to sack somebody for wanting a ceasefire - even if you personally believe it to be unrealistic or ineffective in the circumstances.

Yep, unbelievable! I can't find the words to express how shocked I am by this. Where's the outrage in the mass media regarding our freedom of speech being curtailed so unashamedly?

100% agreed.

Unfortunately in 2023 censorship is very much present in our government and the mass media. I knew about this but never thought it was so so rampant.

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe.

There could be a ceasefire if Hamas released the hostages and stood down.

Any other option means them making good on their founding motto to destroy Israel.

So by this logic, asking for a ceasefire instead of removing a homicidal terror group means you support the destruction of the state of Israel. And we know what that is. It starts with "a" and ends with "nti-Semitism", whichever way you spin it.

It doesn't surprise me that you side with the curtailing of freedom of speech. I wouldn't expect better from anyone condoning genocide.

I personally find the whole 'pro' or 'anti' Israel discourse simplistic and crass but I accept that I have bias towards Israel and I understand why the Party line is to oppose calling for a ceasefire. I fully get the short and long-term implications of that. I'm Jewish, of course I do.

However, at this moment in time, there absolutely has to be a ceasefire - the killing has to stop! And firing someone calling for a ceasefire is unconscionable when the death toll in Gaza is upwards of 9000. How many days/weeks until that figure has doubled. It's fucking unbearable. I'm not going to call it genocide because I don't believe it is in the literal sense of the word, and I don't believe Israel's aim is to ethnically cleanse Gaza. But I don't know how you can be privy to all those images of dying and maimed Gazan families and sack someone because they oppose the Party line to call for a ceasefire. It shouldn't be controversial, they're hardly demanding an end to Western support of Israel.

Call me naive, but getting rid of Hamas in Gaza isn't going to get rid of Hamas - many of its leaders are elsewhere, as are a substantial number of their 'foot soldiers'. They will strengthen and recruit outside Gaza where they already have a presence. Razing Gaza to the ground isn't going to make Hamas go away.

And no, I don't know what the answer is.

Not forgetting the Chinese donors too.

Are you saying that being Jewish = supporting Israel? This is not true at all. Among the most prominent individuals most critical of Israel are Jewish themselves. These are but a few of them:

Noam Chomsky (American Jewish) & Ilan Pappé (Israeli Jewish)

On Palestine
https://amzn.eu/d/ggqPAPo

Dr Gabor Maté (Hungarian Canadian Jewish whose grandparents were killed in Auschwitz)

BEAUTIFUL DREAM OF ISRAEL HAS BECOME A NIGHTMARE
https://drgabormate.com/beautiful-dream-israel-become-nightmare/

Miko Peled (Israeli American)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MikoPeled

Torah Judaism
@TorahJudaism
Jews United Against Zionism.
https://twitter.com/TorahJudaism

I assume you know the difference between Judaism (thousands of years of existence) as opposed to Zionism (just over a century of existence).

“The truth is Zionism is a political movement that is not equal to Judaism.” Says Rabbi Alissa Wise about the 125-year-old Zionist movement

https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1720244400926732299

Founded in 2006 as a personal blog of journalist Philip Weiss, Mondoweiss grew inside the progressive Jewish community and has become a critical resource for the movement for justice for Palestinians
https://mondoweiss.net/

Jewish Voice for Peace
Our Approach to Zionism
Jewish Voice for Peace is guided by a vision of justice, equality and freedom for all people. We unequivocally oppose Zionism because it is counter to those ideals.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/

Supporting Palestinian rights is antisemitic because Israel wants it to be
The irony is that Zionism and antisemitism are each other's best recruiting tools.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/how-jews-can-support-palestinian-rights-condemn-antisemitism-ncna1268680

So no, being Jewish does not equal support of Israel and 'anti-Israel' is not antisemitism.

I'm a libertarian but I also accept that freedom of speech comes with caveats. It's the age old analogy that yes, I should have the right to say what I want but if I go into a busy shop and start yelling 'bomb', I'm likely to be charged with a public order offence.

When it comes to marches and protests, the government has to weigh up the potential harm it might cause. If the National Front somehow gathered a million people to march through central London, hope it would be stopped, not on the grounds of free speech but on the grounds of the deep distress, harm and possible violence this would cause to ethnic communities.

Unfortunately while there's undoubtedly a lot of well-intentioned, principled people on these most recent protests, from what I've seen, a lot don't seem to know what it is they're really supporting. The casual way some sing 'from the river to the sea', not knowing what that offensive chant actually means or how some are waving Hamas flags (not Palestinian ones) or the fact that Palestine and many of its neighbours have some of the most horrific records on human rights plus archaic laws on LGBT+ and women's rights. Personally I'd like to see a march that called ALL leaders to account, not just Israel.

And in the middle of that will be a lot of trouble makers who are there to cause anarchy and inflame tensions among an already deeply frightened Jewish community.

So yes, the protestors have an absolute right to protest but if the collective action is going to cause widespread fear and disruption I think it's right to curb it. I don't see that as locking down free speech. I see that as protecting peace and public order.

I fully support free speech in democratic societies but we have to draw a line between free speech and hate speech. I think unfortunately there are sentiments in both print and through protest that can only be seen as anti Semitic and it is quite right that our police service cracks down on this. We do not want free speech to veil support of a terrorist organisation or general vilification of any race or religion.

Also I think the current marches in our cities as well as being disruptive do not represent the majority view of this country, that being October 7th was a heinous series of unspeakable acts, Israel needs to defend itself to prevent a repeat of such atrocities, and there should be a minimization of civilian casualties in general. The marches are not being attended by any main steam political leaders so I think they give an artificial impression of the concern over a conflict at the end of the day is a foreign one.

Do we have to fill our cities up at weekends with large marches where the placards and chants are on the borderline of hate speech. Does this make the Jewish community feel any safer when they are already suffering from staggering levels of hate incidents? Does this represent Britain?

Also would it be respectful as British citizens to call off marches in London on remembrance day?. Perhaps the protesters could join the crowds in Whitehall and silently pay respects for those that died to protect our country's freedoms including free speech?

There is more that joins us than divided us as a society and we shouldn't take advantage of liberal attitude to free speech to engender hatred for any community.

To me Remembrance Day is a day that we should remember the dead from war and remember why they got killed and vow to try and avoid future conflict and war - to show that we have learnt from their sacrifices

So marching for peace seems reasonable - the war is very proof that sone have not learned.

anyone who repeats the mantra "the October 7th attacks were horrific Israel must defend itself " as justification for the current violence to me is bordering on justifying the current annihilation of Palestinian civilians which to me is hateful - hate action not hate speech

To argue that asking for the violence against Palestinian civilians to be stopped is anti semetic or supporting hamas is inhumane

Agreed.