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Climate Change
Original poster

Plumber said NO to new heat pump. Do I really need a new gas boiler?

55 replies

Handy123 · 02/11/2021 19:45

Our gas boiler needs replacing as it's knackered. Plumber came round and said a new air source heat pump system would not work. We have the budget for it (yes I know it's very expensive) and want to stop burning fossil fuels and protect the environment.

It's a small 2 bed terrace, very old. It's built of stone so I can insulate the roof space easily, but the walls less so. Does not currently have underfloor heating and has small radiators. It has a garden to put the heat pump in, but he has said it would be noisy and would pump out cold air so it would make the garden unusable.

I really like our plumber as he's usually brilliant. Straight-talking, fair and honest. Should I accept his advice on this one or keep trying? It just seems wrong to put a new gas boiler in right now.

OP posts:
Spiceup · 02/11/2021 21:27

I suspect this particular plumber doesn't want to or is unable install the pump, but there are some disadvantages, not least finding the tradesmen to do it. It is recognised that most houses will need new radiators and upgraded insulation.

My Dad has been trying on and off for 3 years and can't find anyone to do the job for him.

OrangeSamphire · 02/11/2021 21:31

We had a similar issue OP. Needed to replace an old combi boiler (oil not gas) and heat pumps just weren’t an option.

We went for an electric flow boiler with a hot water storage tank. It’s superb. Efficient, quiet, never needs servicing.

Next year we will hook it up to solar.

LemonMuffins · 02/11/2021 21:32

We have a heat pump in the house we rent and I hate it so much. Oh, how i long for a gas boiler.

It's expensive, noisy, complicated and a pain in the arse to control temperature. Bills are also high.

RainingYetAgain · 02/11/2021 21:41

We've got a Mitsubishi ASHP, can't remember the size but there were 3 sizes and ours was the middle one. House was built in 1998, 4 beds, 2 bathrooms, 3 reception and has small micropore pipes.Our old boiler was a floorstanding oil boiler in the attached garage, and our ASHP is on the outside of the wall where the oil boiler was previously. We are in a rural village. We had an EPC done, to apply for RHI and we were a D, so not fabulously insulated.
Our downstairs rooms are usually at 20-21C, bedrooms are set to be cooler. As I said, we had a couple of rooms which did not really get very warm, so we had the radiators replaced. They are now considerably warmer. We have thought about replacing the others, but don't see the point.
In the village there are several older sheltered bungalows which are all heated by ASHP and I chatted to a couple of residents who were all happy with them.

iwishiwasafish · 02/11/2021 21:49

@OhPleaseJustLast it was the company building the house (who would also have been supplying the heat pump as an add on). Thanks for the info on yours. Very helpful!

@RainingYetAgain thanks! That’s really helpful.

We had agreed to switch to a ground source heat pump instead (the type that goes straight down rather than the one that goes across the whole garden), but might look to switch back with more info.

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 02/11/2021 21:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

SinoohXaenaHide · 02/11/2021 21:57

The vast majority of older properties in the uk are totally unsuitable for heat pump installation. It's a pipe dream to think they can be retrofitted. Absolutely fine for legislation to be passed banning gas boilers in new properties - new buildings can be designed from scratch to incorporate what is needed, and it's totally right that builders should be obliged to do so. But the timescale for mandating the same for replacement systems in old houses is going to be pushed back and back.

RIPWalter · 02/11/2021 21:57

We have an ASHP in a small 150 year old stone cottage (walls are granite and nearly a meter thick), it works brilliantly. I hardly notice the noise from it in the garden and certainly not in the house (it is just outside downstairs bedroom window). If I pass it when it is running there is a cold blast of air but it is very localised, but not unpleasant.

As you are already aware insulation is key, so lots of roof insulation and quality double glazing. You may need to upgrade the radiators, we did, but they are not excessively big.

We used projectheatingsolutions.co.uk

RainingYetAgain · 02/11/2021 21:58

@iwishiwasafish
We had a quote for Ground source pump, it was 3 times the cost of an ASHP, but used a trench rather than a borehole.

ladygindiva · 02/11/2021 22:01

I have an air source heat pump unit in my small garden, and it's rubbish to say it renders the garden unusable. I only feel the cold air blast if I'm sat within a few feet, and that's only when it's on. The noise is negligible in my opinion.

iwishiwasafish · 02/11/2021 22:01

[quote RainingYetAgain]@iwishiwasafish
We had a quote for Ground source pump, it was 3 times the cost of an ASHP, but used a trench rather than a borehole.[/quote]
Yeah the borehole is adding £30k to my build cost at the moment Confused. I refuse to have gas though.

Annoyingly the same company also won’t support a solar roof (although admittedly that might be a structural issue).

julieca · 02/11/2021 22:13

If it is a 2 bedroom place is the garden very small? I stayed in a friends house with a heat pump and it does take up space, so if your garden is very small it would be an issue.

Suspiciousmind20 · 05/11/2021 17:25

It’s still quite a specialist area. It’s worth speaking to specific specialists just to see if it could work. It might not be possible but you’d kick yourself if you found out retrospectively that it could have worked.

If not spend the money on insulation and the most efficient boiler you can get. Switch to a renewables energy supplier.

DelphiniumBlue · 05/11/2021 17:37

My son lives in a flat.where there is a heat pump, it is awful! He has just had to call the engineers out for about the 6th time in less than a year. Even when it's working well, it doesn't keep the flat warm ( big, in an old building only partially double glazed). He's had to buy extra heaters just to make the place liveable, and the heating bills were 180pm last winter, more than I pay for a 4 bedroom house. He is not someone who usually has the heating up high, he is happy at about 17 degrees. For someone who feels the cold it would be dreadful.
If your plumber is saying don't, it's for a good reason. The research we've done suggests they only work well in fully insulated buildings.

Fangdango · 05/11/2021 17:39

I keep being tempted by infrared heating / boiler systems like this

www.boilerguide.co.uk/product-spotlight/logicor-heating-hot-water-system

As I understand it, there's no magic reduction in electricity use. You just have more options for placing the heaters so isn't lost? Whether it's a green solution depends on green sources for your electricity. But are they a step up from gas, environmentally?

Apart from expense, I hate the idea that air / ground pumps mean ambient warmth over hours / days rather than blast of heat when you want it. I hate heat at night. I like a quick blast late in the evening or first thing in the morning. I do wonder if this system might be a sensible immediate boiler replacement for me while we await better and cheaper technology.

DelphiniumBlue · 05/11/2021 17:40

Oh yes, and it takes ages to respond if you want to adjust the temperature. If there is a sudden cold spell, it is freezing and takes a couple of days to catch up.

flyingtothemoon · 05/11/2021 17:42

Go with an air source heat pump if you want a cold house and big electricity bills to run the pump.

They don't work. Even massively insulated air right houses

Fangdango · 05/11/2021 17:50

@DelphiniumBlue

Oh yes, and it takes ages to respond if you want to adjust the temperature. If there is a sudden cold spell, it is freezing and takes a couple of days to catch up.
That's ... perfect for British weather, then Shock
OhPleaseJustLast · 05/11/2021 20:23

@flyingtothemoon

Go with an air source heat pump if you want a cold house and big electricity bills to run the pump.

They don't work. Even massively insulated air right houses

That’s a bit of a sweeping generalisation. Ours works fine.
julieca · 05/11/2021 20:28

I worry about houses being over insulated. Houses need to breathe.

ladygindiva · 05/11/2021 20:47

@flyingtothemoon

Go with an air source heat pump if you want a cold house and big electricity bills to run the pump.

They don't work. Even massively insulated air right houses

Mines amazing. Low bills and always warm.
iwishiwasafish · 05/11/2021 20:48

@julieca

I worry about houses being over insulated. Houses need to breathe.
Most highly insulated houses have air flow systems.
julieca · 05/11/2021 20:57

Okay that makes sense for new houses. I have an old house. A previous owner tried to insulate it fully. The owner before me had to put in air vents because of the issues this caused.

YankeeDad · 05/11/2021 21:14

we are putting in an ASHP, but this is for a well-insulated home with underfloor heating, large pipes and large radiators.

You will be cold if you put one of those in. Your plumber is giving good advice.

If you have money to spend on this and really want a system as future-proof as possible, then you could consider a fuel cell system. These are more complex, and currently use hydrogen that comes from natural gas (no not non-renewable) but that might change in the future.

However, it were me I would probably spend money available for improving the energy footprint as follows: first, get a really high-efficiency boiler. Use a renewable electricity supplier. Then, ensure all door / window seals are good (cheap but important). Then look into other higher-ticket options such as changing windows or adding wall insulation or adding solar photovoltaic, depending on what works for your property.

Santastuckincustoms · 06/11/2021 08:24

@julieca

I worry about houses being over insulated. Houses need to breathe.
Yes, people will be complaining of all the condensation and black mold and wonder where it all came from.