School nativity with obscure Christmas Carols - why?

[BrocolliFloret]

DC are at two different schools and their nativities and Christmas concerts never include ANY traditional Christmas carols.

They’ve not gone secular - they still sing about the wise men, the donkey etc… but they have binned the classic carols and only use unknown modern hymns.

Anyone else find this is the case with their school, and does anyone have any idea why they do this?

Seems like a waste that they’re spending time learning and performing these dull unmemorable songs when there are so many amazing Christmas carols that would be much more enjoyable to listen to. Just me?

@BrocolliFloret it's Hark! The Herald angels sing,
Not hark now hear the angels sing

I came here hoping you were going to say they'd chosen some Thomas Tallis.

[quote Smidge001]@BrocolliFloret it's Hark! The Herald angels sing,
Not hark now hear the angels sing [/quote]
I realised after I wrote it, was actually Mary’s Boy Child I was listening to 😊

Hark now hear
The angels sing
A King was born today
And man will live forever more
Because of Christmas Day

BORN IN A BARN, A BETHLEHEM BARN!

Sorry, tattooed on my brain.

@RedToothBrush

All 'traditional' Christmas Carols were new at some point and eventually caught on. Why can't we have a bit of difference to the 'old faves' or god forbid use some new songs?

Rudolph the red nosed reindeer was only invented in 1939 when someone wrote a book and the song wasnt a hit in 1949.

Christmas carols have been around since about the 12th or 13th century. I'm pretty sure many from back then have long since fallen out of favour simply because they don't capture the imagination or resonant with a new generation.

I find the idea that we should stand still and have to follow a compulsory list of approved songs pretty bizarre.

Why the shouldn't kids sing different Christmas songs and perhaps create new 'traditional' ones?

It’s not like they’re just introducing one or two new songs.. there’s about 10 between the DC and none are recognisable, I don’t think they even repeat any of them year-on-year.

My school does a scripted nativity in KS1 with modern songs and a carol concert in ks2 with a mixture of contemporary and traditional congregational carols. It's lovely! We're very lucky that we do still have a pianist who comes in and plays for us. We're also a church school, which makes a difference.

Primary Teacher here. We buy scripts that have all the songs in, comes with backing music, easy words in the songs (and usually upbeat) for the children to learn and suit all ages from Reception up to Year 6. Most carols are long, with difficult lyrics and words the younger children wouldn’t understand so utterly pointless to use.

@BrocolliFloret I agree that’s exactly the point - these songs are not repeated and reused becoming a modern Christmas memory for the children. They are used for one year then ditched.

Christmas plays for primary schools don't generally include traditional carols, as their main function is as a Christmas Nativity musical. Original carol words are also extremely difficult for younger children to memorise as part of a staged production and the vocal range isn't always appropriate for young voices.
Like mamaduckbone, we also do a junior carol service and separate infant nativity plays for Reception and KS1.
The carol service includes some carols but also other Christmas repertoire of the Nine Lessons and Carols ilk. There is a fine balance to be had when creating a service - the traditional carols require fluent reading skills because you can't get the whole Key Stage to memorise four of five verses of enough carols to make it a worthwhile length.
If you go down the John Rutter carols route, many of them are fiendishly difficult for children to sing well. There are many lovely Christmas songs and carols out there which are aimed at developing voices. I would prefer my children to sing something accessible which enables them to focus on a musical performance and succeed at singing accurately in parts.

A lot of the scripts schools use include songs. I think the trad carols are out of copyright so the wouldn’t be able to charge for it. If the church you go to isn’t doing trad carols feedback and go to a different one. The trad carols (often with organ) is what people want (especially my non Christian friends). The trad carols bring on nostalgia right?

Generations of children managed away in a manger and little donkey and o little town of Bethlehem. I still remember singing those in reception in 1979. The more difficult adult carols we just joined in where we could. But by 9 or 10 most kids I think could sing the holly and the ivy, silent night and O come all ye faithful and would know others eg god rest ye Merry gentlemen and hark the herald.

I honestly think in twenty years time this generation would struggle to sing along to any of those.

I would prefer traditional songs

Me too @mustlovegin

'we're going on a baby hunt' Christ, I feel old.

Thankfully my ds' school still prefers Hark the Herald Angels Sing and Silent Night. They normally add one carol in German and one in French from the GCSE classes which is lovely, and occasionally a soloist is they have anyone good enough that year.

Pretty unfriendly if the audience can't join in at least with part of it.

Totally agree OP. They're part of British culture and history.

And I'm a Jew saying this!

I've never performed in a Nativity, yet I know most of the traditional carols purely from having been exposed to them for most of my youth.

We go to our town's Christmas Carnival every year. It finishes every year with a communal carol concert. Half a dozen classics: Away in a Manger, Good King Wenceslas, Silent Night, Once in Royal David's City, etc. Everyone joins in with Away in a Manger, and then the mumbles start, the joining in with first lines and bits of chorus. Almost the only people singing are aged about 40+.

Nothing nearly so memorable is replacing these carols.

@MissHavershamReturns

Generations of children managed away in a manger and little donkey and o little town of Bethlehem. I still remember singing those in reception in 1979. The more difficult adult carols we just joined in where we could. But by 9 or 10 most kids I think could sing the holly and the ivy, silent night and O come all ye faithful and would know others eg god rest ye Merry gentlemen and hark the herald.

I honestly think in twenty years time this generation would struggle to sing along to any of those.

I think you're right. It doesn't take long for a tradition to disappear if it's not kept alive in some way.Similarly, knowledge of English folk songs is almost extinct now as they're not learned in primary schools.

You don't need to understand all the words to sing them but you do need someone to introduce you to them first. I'm not sure I ponder on 'veiled in flesh the godhead see' even now, but it's a very good tune!

It wouldn't be so bad if the replacements were better, but many of them are musical pap, usually belted out loudly.

My 4 year old is currently practising for her nativity. It seems to be mainly nursery rhymes with different lyrics, which is easy for them to learn. Being a C of E school, they also have a traditional carol service although, of course, parents can't attend due to covid.

@MissHavershamReturns

Generations of children managed away in a manger and little donkey and o little town of Bethlehem. I still remember singing those in reception in 1979. The more difficult adult carols we just joined in where we could. But by 9 or 10 most kids I think could sing the holly and the ivy, silent night and O come all ye faithful and would know others eg god rest ye Merry gentlemen and hark the herald.

I honestly think in twenty years time this generation would struggle to sing along to any of those.

No because we still do Away in a Manger and Little Donkey in Reception, Nursery and KS1 as mentioned above. Older children sing the traditional carols.

@ElftonWednesday

BORN IN A BARN, A BETHLEHEM BARN!

Sorry, tattooed on my brain.

This is obviously why Jesus doesn't shut the door when he leaves

@CaptainMyCaptain in your school but sadly not all

At my school the infants always did a Christmas play (usually a musical version of the nativity), then there was a Carol Service separately that the whole school was involved in. We also used to sing carols in assembly, and learned Christmas songs in music lessons.

I love the happy birthday Jesus one

[quote MissHavershamReturns]@BrocolliFloret I agree that’s exactly the point - these songs are not repeated and reused becoming a modern Christmas memory for the children. They are used for one year then ditched.[/quote]
Agreed - when I hear an organ play the opening chords to "Hark, the Herald Angels Sing" it takes me straight back to the few magical weeks before Christmas when I was eight, and all the accumulated memories since.

And I remember our kind and lovely teacher explaining to us what the words meant, and I think it started a lifelong interest in poetry and beautiful language. Kids are quite capable of understanding that "hark" means listen if someone bothers to tell them!

That carol has been associated with Christmas for 250 years. I don't reckon anyone will be singing (or remembering) "Baby baby Jesus, sleep sleep sleep" to two chords on the guitar beyond Christmas 2021

I don’t think this is a new thing, I’m 29 and remember singing “shake, rattle and roll” for my school nativity.

Mind you there’s one my church does for the kids called “Light factory light” and it’s a horrible ear worm.

It isn't a new thing - I remember doing "Rock Nativity " when I was a school and loved singing "shimmer and shine" 🤣🤣🤣