DH doesn't want to 'do Santa'

[DoubleCarrick]

Morning all,

This almost feels like an anti-Christmas thread but I couldn't think of an appropriate place to post!

DH was brought up in a religion that doesn't celebrate Christmas. He left when he was about 14 but has never until he met me celebrated Christmas.

For me, the important things about Christmas are family, food, having a stocking and a couple of prezzies under the tree, a tree, crackers, etc. Nothing expensive or extravagant - Christmas is always low key when it comes to expenses.

DH is pretty happy with this and enjoys celebrating Christmas with my family. He's obviously been having a think now though. Our first baby is due just after new year and he mentioned yesterday that he doesn't think we should "do Santa". He said he's happy with everything else but isn't comfortable telling our children that Father Christmas exists and will bring them presents.

I'm as of yet unsure how I feel so have told him I'll think for a few days and discuss with him later.

My thoughts - how can we do stockings if there is no Santa? Both me and DH still get stockings from "Santa." How do we broach it with family members, especially those with kids? Will our baby be the one four year old in school who ruins it for everyone else?

How do we come up with something that isn't telling our child that Santa exists but will match with my traditions also?

Is anyone able to share what they do if they've never done Santa?

Thankyou!

[DoubleCarrick]

Talking of the Easter bunny. When I was a teacher I accidentally told the whole of the infant school during assembly that the Easter bunny wasn't real!! Whoops - who knew that telling the "legend of the Easter bunny" would mean that at least 100 of the kids would interpret that as "easter bunny is only a legend and therefore not real"

[Cucumber5]

How about if neither you or your DH tell the child where the stocking is from so that the child can make its own assumptions. Call it a Christmas stocking, rather then a santa stocking.

I agree with gifts under the tree being from yourselves and others, not santa.

[AChickenCalledKorma]

This thread has been fascinating. Whatever you decide I think it's really important that you are having this conversation now and doing it in a calm and reasonable manner. I was really taken aback by how early my children were sucked into aspects of the Santa tradition that we really didn't want to follow. From the nursery teacher who threatened that he wouldn't come if they didn't behave, to the reception teacher that got them to write letters to Santa (when that wasn't something we'd ever done and I had already bought all the presents!!).

If you do decide to do things your own way, particularly if it's a very unusual "own way", you do need to be prepared to explain why things are different in your house almost as soon as your child is verbal.

On the other hand, be reassured that it's OK to do that and children are remarkably accepting that other people have different things going on in their house.

[aforestgrewandgrew]

Adults way over think the whole santa thing IMO!

It's a fun made believe game you can play with the DC. Children invent all sorts of make believe games themselves. My DD spends half her time pretending to be a dog or a ladybird or whatever, I play along with the fantasy, I don't insist on telling her it's not real.

IMO some people worry far too much about the DC finding out Santander isn't real, they're elevating the whole thing into more than just a fun game. Is it this that your DH doesn't like, do you think?

Don't forget DC have a different relationship with fantasy and storytelling to adults. They're much happier to indulge in make believe games even if they know really they weren't real.

I can't remember ever not knowing Santander wasn't real. Certainly in reception I knew. But at the same time, I loved the magic of the stocking appearing and suspending my disbelief over Christmas. I knew it was my parents really but I never said I did as I enjoyed it so much. You need to believe in Santa to get a stocking and join in the fun and - just my opinion - but it seems a shame to deny your DC something so fun.

If my DP didn't want to do Santa I'd maybe go for a compromise where we do stockings but just don't mention Santa.

Or I'd say to my partner it's only a make believe game, just like pretending to be an astronaut with the DC or whatever and not to take it so seriously! But then maybe I feel more strongly about wanting to do Santa than you do, and that's fine, you need to do whatever suits your family best!

I never say to my DC that santa is or isn't real BTW. DS has started asking questions and I just say "what do you think?" and go along with his answers as in "that''s intetesting". If he really wants a straight answer we'll tell him, no big deal!

[aforestgrewandgrew]

Santander?! Santa! Stupid phone!

[aforestgrewandgrew]

Aarggh!

And that should say you DON'T need to believe in Santa to join in the fun IMO.

Really should preview, sorry! Or not write essays on Santa!

[GoodyGoodyGumdrops]

I, too, come from a non-Christmas religion. For dh Christmas is very important, even though he is atheist.

Our compromise was to have a Christmas devoid of Christian imagery - it is a mid-winter festival. We said Father Christmas, not Santa, and described him as the Winter Fairy, similar to the Tooth Fairy. I left most discussion of FC to dh.

Our tree-gifts came from named people and required thank you letters or phone calls. The stockings came from FC. I was uncomfortable with the idea of gifts out of nowhere, so we didn't hang up empty stockings. Each child chose something of theirs to give away, and put it, together with a bag of home-made mince pies, into the stocking for FC to take to children who don't have parents to give them tree presents.

[LittleReindeerwithcloggson]

We told the story of st Nick and said that now, through the magic, all children get a stocking every Christmas. Nothing related to behaviour at all. There's only small things in it and I tree present. They have picked up everything else about Santa from nursery, school, TVs etc. We play along and it's lovely. Their faces on Christmas morning are the best things ever and I love visiting Santa with them. However when they actually ask the truth they will be told. Because they know the legend we will tell them that parents continue the magic for st Nick and that now they are old enough they can keep the magic going too for those that still believe

[wannabestressfree]

You make your own family traditions that's what's nice. I have three boys and my partner has three and we have amalgamated all things Christmassy. It's fab. My parents are super religious and won't even say 'santa'..... it's saint nic etc.
Horses for courses.....

[Sal1977]

Not to de-rail the thread completely, but if you have only just talked about the Santa thing with your husband, it might be worth talking about more serious aspects of you bringing up a child together if he is an ex-witness (I take it).

My DH is XJW by about 15 years and we currently have his nephew staying with us who has just been disfellowshipped, so there is LOTS of conversation going on in our house at the minute. One thing that struck me though, was the blood issue. My DH said that for a few years after he left, he still would have refused blood and if he had had children at the time he's not sure what decision he would have made for them should the choice fall solely on his shoulders.

It's truly an awful awful cruel cult and the after effects take many years to subside (DH now supports others coming out of it). I can feel my blood boiling so I'll leave it there. Just have a few convos about the important stuff before the bubba is born, Christmas will sort itself out.

[aforestgrewandgrew]

LittleReindeerwithcloggson that's a lovely way to do it.

Like you we don't do a that "if you've been naught Santa won't come" stuff. It''s a boringly adult way to put a negative edge on an otherwise wonderful make believe game IMO!

[Sal1977]

Ps. DH is literally like Elf over Christmas as he didn't celebrate one until he was 30! It's wonderful!!

[toastymarshmallow]

Santa is big in our house. But we don't have the Easter bunny at all, which got tricky with DD1 who experienced it at her dads.

With the tooth fairy, I have always saw it as a kind story to help with something quite scary. When my teeth were falling out as a child I was terrified. DD1 was the same despite my reassurances. But telling her about the tooth fairy gave her a distraction that helped ease it.

DD2 is yet to lose any teeth, but she is a sensitive soul and I know she will be upset about it, so the tooth fairy will be used with her too.

[DoubleCarrick]

sal thanks for that, it's a fair point. I know DH's opinion on the blood because he hates that he would ave to refuse blood on his parents behalf. He's pretty pragmatic about it and doesn't understand why you would refuse something that could save you.

I feel like DH had a tame time compared to other JW's. He's still in contact with several JW's and we even had congratulations cards for our wedding and first anniversary. Many of MILs friends ask after me and the baby even though I've never met them and it all seems like a really friendly community. Obviously that's from my perspective as an outsider and DH wasn't disfellowshipped.

[Sal1977]

That's good news!

My ILs are all still 'in' and yes, like you say, are very 'nice'. My DH was also not disfellowshipped so we are the thin end of the wedge I think and still have contact with them all. It's only since Thursday night this week when our (22yr old) nephew arrived and the true horror of how he is being treated by these same people has come to light. How they can call themselves Christian is baffling! Cruel is more accurate.

Anyway, you may find your DH changes his mind and your house ends up like a grotto and you find him head to toe in a santa outfit next year! Lol. We're just about to celebrate our first Christmas as parents and are really looking forward to it!

[DoubleCarrick]

I wouldn't mind him dressed up in a santa outfit! I might suggest that to him

Our first Christmas as parents likely be next year. Although I hit 37 weeks on 19th Dec so you never know!

[Sal1977]

A Christmas Day baby! That'd set the cat amongst the pigeons! Hahah, can you imagine? You ILs would want to celebrate the birth of their grandchild but not be seen to celebrate on Christmas Day! Oh pplleasee have it on the 25th! Hehe!

[DoubleCarrick]

It would be a disaster on Christmas day! We're hosting and my nan really wants me to go in to labour on the 25th - but we're having a home birth and they will all be kicked out regardless of whether the turkey has finished cooking!!

IL's won't do the whole birthday thing so it won't be a bother. They do come over on the 26th each year to see my family though and then nan freaks out about putting all of the christmas napkins away that she is obsessed with, tells me off for having yule logs and mince pies in view and gets confused about whether to offer them wine!!

[lottieandmia]

We don't do Santa because I feel it's wrong to lie. It seems to me that it's mostly for the benefit of adults because my children have a lovely Christmas every year. In fact dd3 likes to pretend to herself that he exists. That is fine. But I won't construct an elaborate lie which they will eventually have to find out about.

When I found out the truth about Santa I really felt my parents had made a fool of me because people at school had started to say that Santa doesn't exist and they swore this was not true, then finally admitted, actually it was.

[Joinourclub]

My 3 year old is exited about Christmas and Father Christmas for the first time this year. We are not religious at all , so Father Christmas is our Christmas story and we have been talking about him a lot! But we read lots of stories that we act out with characters that we pretend to be/see eg the gruffalo / going on a bear hunt. I can see how it would be fairly easy to treat the Father Christmas story in the same way and it still be plenty of fun.

[jessplussomeonenew]

I really like Dale McGowan's take on this parentingbeyondbelief.com/blog/?p=6665 - basically do Santa but don't lie when asked direct questions and congratulate the child when they work it out.

[Piglet208]

I am really impressed how you and Dh are talking openly about what you will do about future Christmas celebrations. I am a nursery teacher and we enjoy all sorts of celebrations such as Diwali and Chinese New Year. We are particularly enthusiastic about Christmas (absolutely love it) and many of the children are too. Children get their beliefs from home so we are sensitive about presenting Christmas through stories and activities just like all our celebrations. I've not yet had a child not allowed to take part, whatever their own religious beliefs as it has been seen as a cultural celebration as much as a religious one. Good luck with creating your own family traditions and values for this special time.

[SILfoundmyusername]

How about just stockings from Father Christmas and presents under the tree are from who they are from. It avoids the writing to gather Christmas asking for a specific present/setting up expectations of a huge Christmas list of things you want.

[Geretrude]

I would never lie when asked direct questions. It doesn't have to be traumatic unless you make it so. And it is fun for children as well as adults Lottie. It's perfectly possible to have your own traditions without rubbishing other people's (and that applies equally to you Bluntness).

Having said that, I overheard a woman telling her child the other day that if she didn't do X, then FC wouldn't come and this poor little girl looked crushed. FC should be something nice to look forward to - not a replacement for ineffective parenting.

[Wolpertinger]

I bloody love Christmas but when I think about what I love about Christmas both from my childhood and now, Father Christmas doesn't get a look in!

It's all about decorating the house, eating special foods you don't eat at other times of the year, making said special foods even if you don't like them - sprouts anyone?, spending time with family, buying and wrapping gifts, having a Christmas tree, getting the box of decorations down from the loft etc etc.

So you could do all of that and it be completely magical without Santa or being too commercial.

If you wanted to you could do stockings for every family member with small gifts in and have them as a surprise and never bother to have them from Santa. Lots of families just do small stockings from Santa and rest of gifts from family under the tree anyway rather than 'everything from Santa'.

But generally traditions emerge - you do something one year, like it so keep doing it the next and it becomes part of 'your Christmas magic'. So have a go, Christmas is pretty pagan anyway, it's about doing something fun when it's cold and dark!