DH doesn't want to 'do Santa'

[DoubleCarrick]

Morning all,

This almost feels like an anti-Christmas thread but I couldn't think of an appropriate place to post!

DH was brought up in a religion that doesn't celebrate Christmas. He left when he was about 14 but has never until he met me celebrated Christmas.

For me, the important things about Christmas are family, food, having a stocking and a couple of prezzies under the tree, a tree, crackers, etc. Nothing expensive or extravagant - Christmas is always low key when it comes to expenses.

DH is pretty happy with this and enjoys celebrating Christmas with my family. He's obviously been having a think now though. Our first baby is due just after new year and he mentioned yesterday that he doesn't think we should "do Santa". He said he's happy with everything else but isn't comfortable telling our children that Father Christmas exists and will bring them presents.

I'm as of yet unsure how I feel so have told him I'll think for a few days and discuss with him later.

My thoughts - how can we do stockings if there is no Santa? Both me and DH still get stockings from "Santa." How do we broach it with family members, especially those with kids? Will our baby be the one four year old in school who ruins it for everyone else?

How do we come up with something that isn't telling our child that Santa exists but will match with my traditions also?

Is anyone able to share what they do if they've never done Santa?

Thankyou!

[DoubleCarrick]

haha mistress. I don't think you were necessarily wrong as your thinking was very plausible and I think you made a fair assumption. It did actually give me food for thought because we'll have issues to address with different belief systems between families. Maybe talking to any future kids about "nan and pops" don't celebrate christmas, etc, might be a way to open dialogue in a sensitive way. As the kids get older they will need to be told why they are given christmas and birthday gifts from one set of grandparents and not the other.

Maybe I'd like the magic of Christmas but want to avoid the commercial nature of things. i.e Elf on the Shelf could be a fun tradition, as could a small stocking but not stacks of prezzies. I know that DH feels very uncomfortable about reserving gifts for Xmas and Birthdays and would prefer to spread them throughout the year.

[VoldemortsNipple]

I suppose when you have been brought up in a religion where you were not allowed to ask questions and you had to believe no matter what, the idea of Father Christmas can feel as if it is the same kind of brainwashing. I think a lot of us would feel the same if we had that kind of upbringing.
Also, even though he has moved away from the religion, it will probably still mould his ideas.

Dd had a boyfriend who had left a similar religion but when she suggested they watch Harry Potter he was appalled and said it was witchcraft.

We absolutely love the magic of Christmas and play along with all the traditions even though my dcs are all way past the age of truly believing. So Santa still fills stockings (he used to bring everything when they were young) the elf brings Christmas Eve boxes, Christmas lists are left under the fire and treats are left for Santa.

Do you think your dh gets the role play and storytelling aspect of Father Christmas or is he just seeing it as lies told as fact? I can see how the latter would be a big no no for your dh.

I think in your situation, I would share stories of how fun believing was when you were young and maybe suggest you introduce one Father Christmas tradition to see how he feels. Let him know that you will never make your children believe and you will be truthful or allow them to question things when they are old enough to form their own opinions.

[DoubleCarrick]

voldemort I really like the idea of telling him about my childhood christmas experiences because he literally has no concept of the idea of the magic of Christmas. It might give him an idea of some of the traditions he would like.

He won't be a scrooge but I find it difficult that he doesn't want to do anything for his birthday. I put my foot down and told him that he has to celebrate my birthday because it's important to me after an epic miss last year where I didn't even get a card. I know he will happily celebrate Christmas but just needs to get things straight in his head.

That being said, I don't just want to force it all on him because this baby is his too and he should have equal say.

I think it's more the lies he doesn't like. He overheard someone say to their kid the other day 'have you been good this year, Santa will only come if you're good'. I get the impression that this is what kicked off his thoughts and why he's opened up the discussion

[SatsukiKusakabe]

Yes, Father Christmas is not used as a stick for good behaviour, and he only fills the stockings and brings one other thing they ask for, the rest are from us and family.

My dh has a similar possibly exactly the same background as yours, and actually has really embraced Christmas and birthdays because he hated the guilt he felt over them as a child. I was in fact more wary of the lying thing because of it. I think it is what you and your children make it, and as I was trying to get across, you can discuss it between you but in the end when the child is older, you end up naturally following their wishes, if you don't have an agenda of your own, and it finds its own way.

[VoldemortsNipple]

I think lying to children over Christmas rubs a lot of people up the wrong way and it must be even more difficult when celebrations as a whole have been culturally frowned upon.

To me I don't see it as lying, I see it as engaging in a fantasy world with a great story about a big man who magically delivers toys to all the children. When they were little, I told the dcs all kinds of tall tales to add to the whole experience.

However when the dcs were beginning to ask questions, I let them know that I like to carry on the legend because it's all part of the fun and if you can't indulge in a bit of fantasy at Christmas, then when can you. But even that part was good as you see them beginning to work out that Father Christmas is logically not possible. Dd told me out right that they knew FC wasn't real. Ds1 chose to ask me all kinds of questions to try and trip me up. He obviously knew the truth but enjoyed asking me questions like how come FC reindeer fly but other don't.

I'm sure if you decide not to have FC you will still have fabulous Christmas's, but maybe you should consider how you want others to approach the situation with your dcs. Chances are people won't support your choices or you dcs will be in company with other children who are FC believers. This could cause more distrust than just indulging in the fantasy for a few years.

I work in Early Years and we fully support the Father Christmas legend with our children. I think if if they were being told it's not true at home, they would be more confused and maybe less trusting than those who are encouraged believe.

[AllPizzasGreatAndSmall]

I do shudder when I see the " I never had it so didnt harm me comments" about everything. Surely as parents we need to take the good and bad from our own childhoods and choose what we want?Rather than dishing out more of the same...

Dishing out more of the same? You do realise people are talking about Santa not inflicting corporal punishment!

I guess however if they were erring to a more un realistic and un grateful nature, I guess we may follow your lead Helena.
Yes Helena, your children obviously are grabby little brats and need to be taught that money doesn't grow on trees

[WiltingTulip]

I agree with voldemort and had the same experience with my dcs.

This year "Santa" will leave chocs and sweets on their bed and the presents from us are under the tree. They're still happy to have a photo taken with Santa too!

[Hellothereitsme]

We always did the Father Christmas stuff. Stockings from him and one gift under the tree. My kids loved it in the morning because FC had knocked his wine over and Rudolph had made a mess with the carrot. I never forced it on them. However we never did / heard of the elf on the shelf, or the Christmas Eve boxes etc etc. I find the elf quite creepy.

[Ohyesiam]

You could tell them about St Nicholas, and the folk lore around it. Your kids will get lots of magic without believing literally. As a family we've all had huge pleasure from harry potter, really got caught in the magic, but none of us needed to believe it was true.
When I was a child, I never thought people believed literally, I Just enjoyed it as a really exciting magical came. We didn't have a chimney, I could see c he couldn't get v round the worlds in one night etc but it didn't stop me loving the ritual.

[MrsAmaretto]

The good thing about Christmas & Mumsnet is that we can all see how many different ways there are to celebrate Christmas and Santa. There is not just one way, which has been at times an eye opener to myself and my husband.

We have friends for who Christmas Eve is the main focus, others whom Santa brings a stocking only, others who do a stocking and an asked for present and on mumsnet children who are told all presents are from Santa.

I've explained the differences to my 3& 6 year old children, by explaining the St Nicholas story and how it differs round the world. The Magic only works by what your family believe, so far they are accepting.

We don't do the Easter bunny, but friends do, again I explain that in a similar way.

[friendswithacat]

I've no issue with other people going along with the myth but to be honest I wouldn't be impressed if I found out nursery were quite so single minded in their pursuit of Santa that my child would emerge mistrustful!

[Geretrude]

We do a mix of stuff because of the different cultures our family is from. DC put clogs out on 6 December for St Niklaas and get sweets. A small present on Xmas eve, a stocking from FC (so never anything big - DC always know that big stuff is paid for with hard work - although what a weird thing to have to consider at Xmas) and presents from family and friends under the tree.

I'm sure they know that FC isn't real now they're older and they tell me what they want as well as writing letters but it doesn't matter - it's fun.

There doesn't have to be any consistency - that's the whole point of childhood surely?

OP I know plenty of people who don't do it and their children have perfectly lovely Xmases. But I would just make sure that it's what you want to do too and not be railroaded.

Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy :)

[Bluntness100]

Ah, you know, as a kid, one of the joys is that Santa is coming or Santa has been, the excitement, fear ( what a fat bloke in a red suit is coming to out house? ) and the sheer joy is something to behold,...from the caster sugar Santa foot prints, to the mince pies left out,,to the Christmas morning sticking, for little kids it's s magical joyous exciting time.

I can't imagine i would love any man enough that I would ever let him rob my children of that time. I'm sorry, but I don't know how else to phrase it. But for me, no man would steal that from my child.

[ProseccoPoppy]

I find threads like this really interesting - we have a very varied cultural/religious mix in our families with people varying from not celebrating Christmas (JWs) through some small scale celebration (low key people, very happy keeping it calm) to what I thought was pretty full on launching into it but neither DH or I had realised that anyone had all the presents coming from Father Christmas! Genuinely hadn't occurred to us - the most FC brings in our families are the stockings (which is the approach we are taking with DC as we're both happy with that). Really interested to hear other families' traditions though.

[HelenaJustina]

AllPizzas

[friendswithacat]

Tad dramatic, Bluntness.

[ProseccoPoppy]

Gosh bluntness just seen your post - really? Isn't that overstating it a little? I mean, I love Christmas and am enjoying doing the whole sticking thing but I wouldn't be too worried about not - I thi k you could easily have a lovely Christmas without.

[friendswithacat]

I honestly think the excitement comes from the surprises and the presents not from who delivers them.

I have a toddler and she 'believes' when I play with her toys that they are talking but at the same time she knows they aren't.

By the age of five many children are starting the disconnect between reality and fantasy but keep it up, partly because parents tell them it's true (parents are Gods until the age of about seven) and partly because their worlds are still very small. They might know in an abstract way that other countries exist but they won't have their heads around how many houses Santa would have to visit in a night the finer points are lost!

Usually the full realisation begins at between six and eight. Younger siblings are often loftily told the truth by older ones so for them it tends to be more like six/seven, older children it's eight/nine.

Yes it's a lovely little whimsical story but so are most childhood things.

[goatkid]

I have a very much younger half sister, who's mother comes from a different country with different Christmas traditions. Santa isn't a thing in her country. They do the Christmas dinner and the tree without the Santa. There was never a conversation with her explaining why. It never came up. It's just their way.

I was horrified when I heard thinking that her Christmas would be missing the magic. I was wrong. She loves Christmas as much as any 9 year old I've ever seen. It's still a wonderfully exciting time for her, full of family, great food and gifts under the tree. She just knows the presents come from us. I honestly don't think her Christmas is any worse off for the lack of Santa than mine was as a child, (I had the full Santa thing) she's always seemed just as happy and excited as I was about Christmas. It's just a different family tradition, which is her norm.

Apologies for the rambling, I've had a glass or more of wine My point is, Christmas is great for children with or without the pretence.

[DoubleCarrick]

This conversation has been truly fascinating. Everyone's slightly different perspectives is making me think about what a truly value about Christmas.

I really like the idea of promoting the legend of father christmas. That might be a fair compromise and one that we are both happy with. I need to chat with him in more detail because if I decide that the FC route is really important to me he might be happy with reassurance that it won't be OTT, won't be used as a behaviour tool, etc.

Question is, do I out my MN user name to him on here to get him to read this thread. There are a lot of interesting points to share with him.

[onecurrantbun1]

We do Santa in our house but in a very low key way. He does the stockings but he is also a glorified DHL man for the other gifts - we send them to him to store until Christmas eve.

He categorically does not go into anyone's bedroom as DD1 got really upset about that at aged 3 & 4. He does not watch you, gifts are not dependant on behaviour.My kids are boisterous and sometimes a bit naughty in the run up to Christmas - has anyone ever really not got presents cos of bad behaviour?! Santa you go and visit in a grotto is just a helper ('elf', if you like) dressed up.

Personally I don't like the Elf on the Shelf as I feel it makes too much of a big deal out of Christmas. Also I find it creepy to have something or someone "alive" in the house. Christmas is important to us and it's nice to look forward to it but I think with Christmas plays, Carol concerts etc there is enough of a build up. We do do the Box with new PJs and The Snowman on DVD, however.

[Bettersleepoutdoors]

Forgive him for he knows not what he does
Marriage is about compromise, apparently, so I would be keen to help him learn how to compromise do it my way/ with Santa early on. It will be good for him.

[ElizaDontlittle]

There are many make believe stories for little ones, FC is just one of them. Knowing they are all just stories doesn't make them any less wonderful.

What are you planning to tell your DC about Jesus, OP? Truth, or a 'nice story', or not tell them anything at all? I think that can affect it a little.

Stockings don't need to be from FC and joy in receiving is probably even more wonderful if you know who gave you things. I disagree with those who don't think Christmas is a time to teach a realisation for how lucky your children are, and about gratitude, and that many people have less. Is it not possible to be delighted and joyful without being aware of how lucky we are?

I actually find the faintly hysterical, no one steals that from my children, type posts faintly disturbing. There are so many important things in the raising of children. It's fine to do things differently. FC is probably not even in the top 100 of what's really important!

(Helena I think you took that put down incredibly graciously btw!)

[nooka]

We were the other way around to the OP. I come from a religious family that didn't have Father Christmas as part of our traditions, but dh's family did Santa (although I don't think in a huge way). I would have felt very uncomfortable incorporating Santa into our Christmas, but luckily for me dh didn't really care.

We developed our own Christmas family traditions, with lists (for family to chose from) and stockings delivered in the middle of the night (by dh or me). We still heard them being very excited in the morning :)

Our children are teenagers now and completely unbothered that they missed out on Santa magic. dd told me the other day that when we moved to North America (when she was about 8) other children were horrified that not only did our family not do Santa she'd also not heard of the Easter Bunny. She thought they were a bit silly, but I don't think she burst anyone's bubble (they seemed like incredibly strong bubbles anyway as the Santa story was kept going for a long long time in most families).

Different families do things differently. So long as there is lots of love and plenty of fun (and presents of course) I think that most children love Christmas however you do it.

[DoubleCarrick]

eliza I think we will go down the 'some people believe' route for Jesus, etc. We will have to because we have my PILs beliefs to consider also. It would be disrespectful for us to even hint that PILs are "wrong" for their beliefs but at the same time DH is clear that he doesn't want them to be encouraged towards their religion. DH wants any kids to make their own decision without any heavy influence, therefore it stands that we will have to teach about a wide range of beliefs.

better I could try that tact with him but he's actually a very easy going husband and i get my own way a lot of the time. The fact that he's mentioned this means that it's important to him to think and talk about, otherwise he would happily go along with it. Hence why I'm considering things quite so thorougly