Article in the Guardian

[Sausagenbacon]

An article in the Guardian today , where I don't think the writer has taken much trouble to educate themselves about what xtians think (and don't mean the references to Mary). I'd be interested to hear what others think

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/05/mary-not-co-redeemer-vatican-pope-leo-catholic-church

Trouble is the OP didn't explain that she does not believe in the concept of Hell nor did she give her general opinion on it, so there has been some confusion there. Also, this forum is what we make of it. I would hope we can discuss these questions, which means there will be a range of very different beliefs. It's important to do so.

I'll say one thing though - I don't like being called a 'xtian' !

I know that some of us can believe in different things and it is important not to make someone feel questioned on their faith and especially not online.

I just wanted to write if not clear-, I do believe in Christ's rest especially to eternal life to, but not that we will all get through.as he said with the many paths and in also Revelations 2 as well. For some people the Gospels are the most important thing as they were given by Jesus.

Hebrews 4-does this imply that we will get through?

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Another version
Now God has offered us the promise that we may receive that rest he spoke about. et us take care then, that none of you will be found to have failed to recieved the promised rest.

Sausagenbacon, it’s good to see somebody else who doesn’t necessarily follow the fundamentalist’s party line.
Unfortunately many on this forum do not respect that opinions differ. It’s their way or the highway (to hell?).

Hebrews 4 follows on from 3 (remember the original manuscripts weren't divided up into chapters) which is important, as the author was writing of how the first generation of Israelites weren't able to enter Canaan due to their rebelliousness and unbelief. They knew God's promise yet they rebelled.

What I take from the scripture there is that we must perservere and not be disobedient to God's word, and that means we need to keep to the Scriptures, study them and obey, as well as being prayful where we fall short. We are also called to look out for our brothers and sisters in Christ so they don't fall short either.

Heb 4:11 "Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience." (NKJV)

That verse implies vigilance and an active pursuing of obedience. The grace of salvation is free, but discipleship requires diligence.

My commentary says: "God’s concern is protective. Like a shepherd, He warns so none “will fall” (1 Corinthians 10:12). Falling here pictures failing to obtain the promised inheritance, not a minor stumble. God “is able to keep you from stumbling” (Jude 24), but He uses sobering calls to awaken vigilance (Hebrews 12:15)."

"Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts” (Hebrews 3:15).

Thank you GentleSheep, that explains a lot and makes things clear.

I can speak to the fact that God is indeed incredibly merciful and will make every effort to retrieve lost sheep (he found me!) no matter in which brambles you are caught. He truly loves us no matter what we do and always calls us back to Him.

@GentleSheep I'll say one thing though - I don't like being called a 'xtian' !

I agree. My opinion is that, on this particular board, it could be one or more : lazy, rude, disrespectful, provocative 🤷‍♀️

@Justmerach I know that some of us can believe in different things and it is important not to make someone feel questioned on their faith and especially not online.

If someone feel ‘questioned in their faith’ they need to reflect on what it is they are saying, repeating, or believe. The conviction they are feeling is probably not from what the other person has said, but more, from God. If it offends their ego, then, that is from ‘self’. They need to go prayerfully back to their Bible for clarification - what does the LORD say?

We all know that lot of tosh is written online but it gets repeated as if it is gospel. I will always question incorrect ‘preaching and teaching’ especially if it is from somebody, either knowingly or unknowingly, is doing the work of the enemy in the guise of ‘christian’… wolves in sheep’s clothing, and all that.

One consistent I have casually observed is that a significant number of people who struggle with what they believe, or who hate God most, come from a Catholic background. Why that would be, I am not sure.

Yes! And Amen!

Thegreatestoftheseislove I see what you mean. I have a friend who is a Mormon and I won't go and research them and take her faith as it is. I know they believe in a man called Joseph Smith-but well I to know God can have prophets and Jesus was the last known one. I don't want to look it up and be thinking that she may be on the wrong path and try and guide her. I think her Holy Spirit would do it and I wouldn't want to harm her faith and let it come between us and me and take her in friendship and pray for her to. They believe in the Godhead and I am sure what the issue is. To stumble on stuff online to shake someone to lose or question their faith is not a pleasant thing for them often.

I had a Catholic education from 4 to 19 and been to a few church's. It can be hard to find a church in a scandal that you have been through on your journey. What was ok in 1990, may be different in some today in 2025 due to society and ministers who lead and what may do in the background after some services. I go to an Anglican church today as a non demontional and don't tag myself with anything other than a follower and a jack of all trades. We should do what feels comfortable to us, and sometimes God too leads us to different things at different times in life but basic truth is always good as well. In all the church's I have been to in my life God has certainly been in them all. I think we should be on guard, but try and give people of the benefit of doubt sometimes.

@Justmerach ...I have a friend who is a Mormon ... I wouldn't want to harm her faith ... To stumble on stuff online to shake someone to lose or question their faith is not a pleasant thing for them often

It is good that you are a friend to her. However, why then, are you concerned about 'harming' her 'faith' - you know that she is part of a pseudo-christian cult and her faith is a false religion? Beware that she is not trying to draw you to the dark side. If you feel equipped, you need to gently draw her away from the darkness into the Light by, again gently, presenting the true Gospel to her.

The LDS believe the book of mormon to be part of scripture; they believe that the Joseph Smith Translation is part of scripture; they believe that the 'pearl of great price' is part of scripture - wrong, wrong and wrong!! ... Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.

@Justmerach ... [Catholic] ministers who lead and what may do in the background after some services ...

That sounds a little concerning.

I think we should be on guard,

Always! Matthew 7:15. Ensure that we are covered by the full armour of God Ephesians 6:12-13!

... but try and give people of the benefit of doubt sometimes.

That is why it is very important to question and understand what people are saying and where they are coming from. Wolves in sheep's clothing are dangerous: therefore no 'benefit of doubt' to be given if what is being said is very clearly anti-Christ or un-Biblical.

Just a thought on this thread (and others)

When you start a thread, particularly on a controversial subject, and say

“I'd be interested to hear what others think”

please have the grace to allow people to actually say what they think without inviting them to

“take your soapbox elsewhere”

when what they think doesn’t align with what you think.

This is a discussion forum.
Not all points of view will be the same.
Let’s cope better with that, please 🙏🏻

Thegreatestoftheseislove thank you. Getting back to the topic about hell looking on my old posts about 20 years ago on a forum-I was writing I don't concern myself with it so it wasn't an equation in my mind as that was for evil people as such as I don't like evil and I was covered by the Our Father. My mum used to tell me a lot and I believed the Bible but it didn't equate into my life. I had a spiritual attack and it made my mind wide open to poor behaviour.

I am non demontional and LDS friend cannot stop inviting me to their attend their church as they think perhaps it may seem strange to them that I am non demontional and not sure of what to do, but it is not like that. She mentioned one church to me and I was near there one day and I went and I thought it was a standard church and said a prayer, just once. Then I got bad dreams of the Joseph was and said sorry I didn't know if it was alright or not. From that I decided not to look into it as and I don't want to judged, but you seem to certain what it is. I have tried to clear to them that I am very happy in my current church.

I read something before on this forum about their being a cult list on church's. I have never been able to find it to see what is on it. There were some brilliant new church's in the 90s that today some may be more corrupt, not all. Some of those corrupt people may be marketing cures for things you don't and doing forced deliverances after service hours. I am not writing about Catholic church's,

@Justmerach Mormons theology is very problematic. They assert that the Father, Son and Holy spirit are three separate gods, who have heavenly wives! They believe one day they (Mormons) will also become gods.

Joseph Smith apparently found the Book of Mormon 'engraved on gold plates' buried in a New York location, it's very plagiarised (especially from Isaiah) - whole chapters of it were lifted word for word from the KJV of Isaiah, which is quite miraculous if you consider that Joseph Smith claimed the Book was written before AD 421!

They claim Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer. Mormons don't pray to Jesus nor worship Him. They say he atoned for Adam's sins but we are responsible for our own. Salvation to Mormons essentially means resurrection, but we have to prove that we are worthy of exaltation to godhood.

I mean, I could go on, but it's so different from Christianity that it basically isn't Christianity at all.

I recommend you buy a good basic theology book, I recently bought Wayne Grudem's Basic Bible Doctrine which covers all the essentials of Christian theology. We all need to become well-acquainted with this so that we cannot easily be deceived. You can always ask senior people in your church to explain further.

GentleSheep, thank you on this information. I will look into buying the book you recommended to. My Bible one I have is vintage from 1976 and is tremendously good, and has information about the end times at the end. It doesn't have so much information about New Testament expanded notes, so I will take a look and see what I find, thank you.
I did study this at university and school and read the New Testatment and know enough to get me through and have areas which I am most passionate about.
It seems in recent years the langauge is changing a bit and when it comes to interaction finding out this is helpful. Trust in God is being replaced with love in God, mery and grace. Long time out before that may be in school days people might talk more about hell. I went to a Catholic school we talked about divine mercy for extreme cases and didn't question his word as a loving kind Father.

It is interesting to see where people are at and learning is always good. I do believe there is hell, but some people write it off for themselves because they do they do the will of the Lord so they don't think about and that the Our Father covers them from all. They may have a simple life to.

I was wondering the Guardian article, the baby Jesus they have. He was holding something, what do some of you think it is, it looks like a mice to me. It looks cute to me, but may be is a holy instrument instead. Giving a mouse I think may lead to poor jokes not fitting for the Lord.

The vatician seems to have a history of mice of there own. Well, last year I read they withdrew putting a model of baby Jesus is Palestian robe due to complaints to.

I think it might be a dove - you can see what may be a fan-shaped tail as well as the odd pear-shaped thing!